Posted by KaraS on January 1, 2005, at 19:09:57
In reply to Re: St. John's success and some thoughts, posted by barbaracat on January 1, 2005, at 18:09:23
> > So SJW provides a normal kind of balanced motivation as part of a complete antidepressant response for you.
>
> **Yes, it's not a speedy kind of drive that I experienced from some ADs.I've never received much motivation from any ADs (maybe a little from low dose nortriptyline but the tachycardia prevented me from continuing with it.) so even the speedy drive kind sounds good to me.
> >>Have you ever tried any SSRIs? If so, did they give you that same kind of response?
>
> **Oh, yes. I've been on all of them, SSRIs, tricyclics, atypicals, mood stabilizers, Lamictal. Some of them, like Wellbutrin and Lamictal made me feel hyper. Not the same thing as motivation which is for me, energy combined with interest. Some SSRI's made me feel more motivated as an overall response to feeling better, but I can't say the feeling was ever one of peacefulness. It was a more tight feeling inside and I had jaw and muscular tension..Interesting how we all respond so differently to these meds. It is such a pleasure, though, to read about your (and your husband's) success with SJW.
> >I know that SJW is not an SSRI but I've read that it's effects can be predominantly serotonergic.
>
> **Recent studies show that it affects all three, plus GABA. I have not noticed any sense of apathy at all, like I did with SSRIs. Emotions are appropriate responses. I can still cry with emotions, unlike when I was on SSRIs. The symptom relief/effect feels very different than on SSRIs. I never felt 'happy' or 'lightness of spirit' from SSRIs, more just an absence of suffering.I bet certain brands of SJW are more serotonergic than others which may account for the apathy some have reported with SJW. The fact that you have the full herb effect with the addition of the Flora probably helps to ensure broader coverage as well.
> **How did you not tolerate the Perika and Jarrow?I tolerated the Jarrow well in the small amount that I took but I didn't continue with it because I read posts where some people who were taking SJW compared their results to SSRIs and also mentioned the apathy they felt. That was what I wanted to get away from. So then I got the Perika because I read it was more dopaminergic. It made me feel so sick and my head felt like it was going to explode (and that was only with 300 mg.) It was truly horrible. Anyway, your posts have renewed my interest in SJW.
As I wrote earlier, I had a hard time with Perika too. It felt like an SSRI and was having some destabilizing bipolar effects from it, like I would if I were taking a real SSRI. This HBC Protocols stuff along with the Flora feels totally different to me. Part of it may be that Perika and Kira and most of the brands out there use only hyperforin extract, thinking that's the active component. Maybe it's effective but only targets certain transmittors, or however it works. HBC has another extract as well which may have a different target. Flora brand is a full-spetrum extract from flowers infused in olive oil. I really do need both brands and I truly cannot tolerate anything that acts like a SSRI because of my bipolar disorder. St. John's also has had no effect on my sexual response. If anything, I'm finally enjoying it since I'm not in constant angst these days.
You really do make it sound ideal.
> I'll bet that SJW works best when the whole plant is present at some level. You need the active components in a high enough dose, but you also need the living stuff too. I can only say what works for me, but I do say it should be hyperforin > 4%, hypericin >0.3% and a full-spectrum booster instead of a single extract brand.When I try it again, I will definitely add some of the Flora brand to it.
> Remember, I'm also taking lithium which I could not do without, and fish oil. These three are important for my health. I don't do as well without any of these three. I'm also working on balancing all my hormones as well, so it's not just the SJW alone that's made the difference. But I tell you, just looking at my husband's response and I know it's doing something. Happy New Year, Kara. Looking forward to a year that's gotta be a whole lot better than 2004. - Barbara
I am also building up on the fish oil now after reading some of the recent threads here. I do like the idea of solving my problems more naturally and safely.
Another concern I remember I had about SJW was that I read about it having a depressing or diminishing effect on estrogen. (I'm not describing it well but you probably know what I mean.) I was having bad hot flashes at the time and didn't want anything else to make it worse. Did you find that the SJW had any negative impact on your estrogen levels? Are you working with a doctor to balance your hormone levels?
Also, did it take you the full 8 weeks to see results? My situation is really quite desperate. I have to get functional soon or I'll lose my apartment and my independence. For that reason (along with their success rate in treatment resistant cases) I have been considering an MAOI. I'm still a bit frightened of them though.
Definitely agree about the better year for all of us here on PB!
Thanks again for all of your help, Barbara.
K
poster:KaraS
thread:435452
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050101/msgs/436496.html