Posted by KaraS on December 31, 2004, at 14:24:24
In reply to St. John's success and some thoughts, posted by barbaracat on December 29, 2004, at 18:21:52
> Hi All,
> I'm on my 6th month of St. John's Wort and it is definitely helping. I have a particularly nasty and severe form of bipolar mixed-states depression, and it has helped me, despite claims that it's only for mild to moderate depression. I do have to take it along with lithium. One doesnt' work without the other for controlling the different aspects of my mood disorder, but both together work beautifully. My husband has been helped amazingly by it (I'd been telling him he was dysthymic for years and now he believes me). I'd like to share some of what I learned through alot of trial and error, research, and keeping a journal of my responses as I went along.
>
> If you don't want to read all of this, here's what works for me:
>
> 2 HBC Procotols St. John's Wort extract
> 1 Flora full spectrum oil-infused SJW extract
>
> You may need to adjust amounts, but the two together are what did the trick for me. See the bottom for websites where to order. Otherwise, here's the background at how I came to discover this effective combo.
>
> - First of all, there are many different manufacturer's, formulations, and properties to the different compounds known collectively as St. John's Wort. Some people swear it has to be the whole herb, others have isolated active ingredients into a standardized extract form. The method of extraction can vary widely too causing variations in the product's properties.
>
> Add to this the fact that there's alot of differing opinion as to what the actual active ingredient is. Some say it's hyperforin (the current favorite), some say it's hypericin. Both seem to work. There have even been extracts of everything else except those two and it's been effective.
>
> So no one knows what is doing the job or how it works. You get a 'this is definitely the active ingredient and how it works' and then it changes with new research.
>
> - There are three major pharmaceutical houses who isolated and extracted the differing active compounds that were used in the major research studies (mainly in Europe - STJ by prescription is the leading AD in Germany and it was rigorously studied over there). The three formulations from these houses are referred to as Perika, Kira, and Indena. Other manufacturers jumped on the bandwagon but those are the gold standard of formulations.
>
> - I started with Perika on good referrals from another board I'm on. It started out gangbusters, almost like too much Wellbutrin then pooped. I gave it the required 4 weeks and it started and stopped. I was also not on lithium during this time and decided I really needed it. Taking lithium supercharged the STW and it really kicked in, but a little too activating. So I switched to Kira and it was a little milder but still left me feeling a little jaggy (plus it's the most expensive). Went down to 2 instead of the standard 3 and started getting depressed again.
>
> So I tried Flora brand, an olive-oil infused whole herb brand that was highly recommended. My depression lifted somewhat, but it wasn't strong enough even at 5 capsules.
>
> Then I got some HBC Protocols brand which uses the Indena formulation that was used in favorable US research studies. I still had some Flora left, so I took 2 of the HBC Procotols and 1 Flora. Within 1 week life began to feel lighter and kinder and stayed that way for 1 month. Until I ran out of the Flora. Thought I could substitute the HBC for the Flora and take 3 HBC's. Nope, too agitating, too hyper.
>
> In short, taking 3 HBC's only was too much, although a different 'too much' than Perika or Kira (HBC uses both hypericin and hyperforin with other neuro-complementary ingredients like B6, methylcobalamin, grape seed extract - plus it's the least expensive. Perika and Kira use only hyperforin). Taking 2 was not enough and I got depressed. So I thought 'hmmmm, let's try that original winner - HBC plus Flora'. And in 1.5 weeks back on Flora, life is sweeter and lighter again.
>
> Recall that Flora is the whole herb brand that alone at 5 pills was not strong enough (perhaps more would have worked but it would get expensive). But with HBC, just 1 does the trick. So there seems to be something in the whole herb that just a little bit of acts as a catalyst to the more potent (very potent in fact) isolated active extracts found in the Big 3.
>
> I recall a story I heard about a study where every ingredient possible was isolated from sea water and then added to regular water to duplicate ocean water as exactly as possible. Salt water fish were dying in this water. Then just 1 cup of ocean water was added to the large tank and the fish survived. Something they hadn't isolated or extracted, and it didn't take much to complete the conditions necessary for life. Maybe it wasn't even an ingredient, maybe it was something energetic that couldn't be measured or isolated.
>
> So, I think that's what's going on with my convoluted yet happy experiment. HBC Protocols contains two of the potent extracts in a higher percentage, and those potent high-dose extracts seem to be important for rooting out a depression. You need the big guns, a true pharmaceutical grade potent extract, and not just a cup of tea. But there's something in the whole herb that makes it all come together and it doesn't take much.
>
> For me, the lithium was crucial as well. I also take L-Taurine 1,000 twice a day for extra mood stabilization. I've tried every combination of on lithium/off SJW and vice versa and know that I need both. I'm an experimentor at heart so I know it won't stop here. Heck, I might even go wild and try two of the Flora's.
>
> I hope this has helped shed some light on the many different variables involved in determining if St. John's is going to work for you and to keep giving it another try if you suspect it might. Give it at least 4 weeks and play with the dosages after that. I can't take too much of any AD because of the bipolar II, but my husband can take alot more with no problems.
>
> If you want to try my regimen, you can get HBC Procotols at:
>
> http://www.hbcprotocols.com/products-HV280.html
>
> You can get the Flora brand at www.iherb.com and type in 'flora st. john's wort' in the search box.
>
> If it works for you and you get it just right, you'll be very pleased with it's gentle effectiveness. No big drumrolls or euphoria, just feeling 'normal', centered, calm, motivated. It's like you can see the light shining through life again. Cheers - BarbaraCat
Yes, that is a great post. Thank you. I'm very impressed by how you've managed to fine tune your treatment. Do you mind if I ask you whether your combination provides any or enough energy and motivation for you (or was that not a problem to begin with)?Kara
poster:KaraS
thread:435452
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041212/msgs/436050.html