Posted by Larry Hoover on August 17, 2004, at 8:30:56
In reply to Re: Urticaria and incomplete protein digestion, posted by KaraS on August 17, 2004, at 0:21:38
> >> > Are there any other theories or facts about possible causes of cholinergic urticaria?
> >
> > Well, that's the only one I came across, other than idiopathic. I was also speaking to Scott directly, as I raised incomplete digestion in another aspect of Scott's personal experience. I'm trying to help him consider new angles of self-care.
> >
>
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> Scott says that he only gets it when he takes certain meds. I'm not sure how that fits into the equation for him. I seem to have it everytime I exercise (unless I've taken a very long hot shower beforehand and the mast cells empty their load - at least that's my crude understanding of it). I have to take Zyrtec everytime I exercise (which isn't very often). It really hinders me from getting exercise. I'll try the bromelain/quercetin, niacinamide and other digestive enzymes. It will be interesting to see if or how much they'll help. How long do you think before I'll see results? Actually, I'll probably try things separately to see what each does.I'm far from being an expert on urticaria or pruritus. Niacinamide should work immediately upon uptake, so about one hour lapse on an empty stomach? I don't know much about quercetin's mode of action, so I can't say anything there. Bromelain would only gradually show its effects over a week or two (unless it very quickly settled down someone's 'sensitive' digestion).
> > > As so0meone who itches like crazy every time I try to exercise, I'd be very interested in knowing the answer to that.
> >
> > That specific sub-type of urticaria is believed to be caused by an increase in body core temperature, if I recall what I read about the syndrome. They recommend antihistamines for that, but as we all know, I've been pushing niacinamide. ;-)
>
>
> Actually I think it's the sweat that the body reacts to, which arises from the increase in temperature.I'll have to ponder that. I doubt the reaction would be to sweat per se, but to the bacteria that thrive on it. Eau de locker room is a bacterial effect.
> > > If, in fact, the cause is undigested protein, then that might also account for the fact that I don't respond to amino acid precursor treatment,
> >
> > Not necessarily. Amino acids bypass digestion altogether, being pre-digested, if you will. Undigested protein has two aspects to consider. The first is simply that amino acid uptake is reduced, sometimes to critical levels (and that reduction impedes the process of digestion itself, one of those vicious circle thingies). The other is that those protein fragments can enter the blood, and wreak havoc inside our bodies.
> >
> > If you read standard medical texts, you'll read that proteins cannot enter the blood from the gut. Only aminos can do that. Bollocks.
> >
> > The contents of the gut are outside the body (we are elongated toruses, a little more complex than a drinking straw in shape, but hollow tubes nonetheless). Nevertheless, contact with infinitessimal amounts of e.g. peanut protein can kill sensitized people, and in minutes. There are protein fragments from milk which exactly mimic endogenous opioid structure, and those chemicals are often found in high concentration in cheese. In fact, I have found food science research papers showing that those milk-based opioid concentrations are artificially maximized in some processed cheeses. Bromelain is a protein of about 118,000 daltons (a dalton is the weight of one hydrogen atom, and most aminos are no more than a couple hundred daltons), which is to say, a fairly complex protein, and it can enter the blood intact *in healthy individuals*. I emphasize the latter, as I'm not even considering what is called "leaky gut syndrome", or the atrophic effects of e.g. celiac sprue. But I digress.
> >
> > > and might just explain my depression in general.
> >
> > Yes, or at least, represents an angle at self-care to minimize the effects of this factor.
> >
> > > Also, I have quercetin/bromelain capsules here at home. I'm wondering how much to take for allergy and digestion. Each capsule contains 250 mg. of quercetin and 125 mg. of bromelain.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > -K
> >
> > I've never seen them combined like that before. Are they expensive?
> >
> > I don't know if there's an upper limit on quercetin, but I'll take 2,000 mg of bromelain on its own.
> >
> > Lar
>
>
> HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS STUFF????
>
> Thanks.
> -KI am gifted with a relational database type brain. I know where to put a new concept in relationship to others already present, and I can also sense if I don't know where to put something (ergo, when to start researching anew). The retrieval system seems to be rather efficient, as well. In contrast, I have a horrible problem with people's names (but not chemical names), and in the details of that particular person's life as compared to other life stories which I often misattribute (and again, I seldom mix up chemicals). Go figure. If it was the other way around (doing people better than chemicals) I'd probably be one of those social dynamos who knows everybody and everything about each one ("and how is your lovely wife Gail", to a man I met once, three years before, on another continent).
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:364999
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040815/msgs/378570.html