Posted by Larry Hoover on August 16, 2004, at 6:49:37
In reply to Re: Urticaria and incomplete protein digestion » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on August 15, 2004, at 16:42:00
> Larry,
>
> You said this to Scott in a previous post in this thread:
>
> "... cholinergic urticaria? It may be caused by incomplete digestion of protein in the stomach. You may benefit from e.g. bromelain supplements. It also has anti-inflammatory activity."
>
> Is that just a theory or is there some real evidence that incomplete digestion of protein causes urticaria?It is a theory of the etiology of that particular type of urticaria. I like having a theory a lot better than the other alternative in this case, which merely assigns it the label "idiopathic", which is nothing more than the doctors saying "there's something weird about you".
> Are there any other theories or facts about possible causes of cholinergic urticaria?
Well, that's the only one I came across, other than idiopathic. I was also speaking to Scott directly, as I raised incomplete digestion in another aspect of Scott's personal experience. I'm trying to help him consider new angles of self-care.
> As so0meone who itches like crazy every time I try to exercise, I'd be very interested in knowing the answer to that.
That specific sub-type of urticaria is believed to be caused by an increase in body core temperature, if I recall what I read about the syndrome. They recommend antihistamines for that, but as we all know, I've been pushing niacinamide. ;-)
> If, in fact, the cause is undigested protein, then that might also account for the fact that I don't respond to amino acid precursor treatment,
Not necessarily. Amino acids bypass digestion altogether, being pre-digested, if you will. Undigested protein has two aspects to consider. The first is simply that amino acid uptake is reduced, sometimes to critical levels (and that reduction impedes the process of digestion itself, one of those vicious circle thingies). The other is that those protein fragments can enter the blood, and wreak havoc inside our bodies.
If you read standard medical texts, you'll read that proteins cannot enter the blood from the gut. Only aminos can do that. Bollocks.
The contents of the gut are outside the body (we are elongated toruses, a little more complex than a drinking straw in shape, but hollow tubes nonetheless). Nevertheless, contact with infinitessimal amounts of e.g. peanut protein can kill sensitized people, and in minutes. There are protein fragments from milk which exactly mimic endogenous opioid structure, and those chemicals are often found in high concentration in cheese. In fact, I have found food science research papers showing that those milk-based opioid concentrations are artificially maximized in some processed cheeses. Bromelain is a protein of about 118,000 daltons (a dalton is the weight of one hydrogen atom, and most aminos are no more than a couple hundred daltons), which is to say, a fairly complex protein, and it can enter the blood intact *in healthy individuals*. I emphasize the latter, as I'm not even considering what is called "leaky gut syndrome", or the atrophic effects of e.g. celiac sprue. But I digress.
> and might just explain my depression in general.
Yes, or at least, represents an angle at self-care to minimize the effects of this factor.
> Also, I have quercetin/bromelain capsules here at home. I'm wondering how much to take for allergy and digestion. Each capsule contains 250 mg. of quercetin and 125 mg. of bromelain.
>
> Thanks.
> -KI've never seen them combined like that before. Are they expensive?
I don't know if there's an upper limit on quercetin, but I'll take 2,000 mg of bromelain on its own.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:364999
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040815/msgs/378155.html