Posted by JLx on November 22, 2003, at 8:33:34
In reply to Re: SAMe, selenium, tyrosine, DHEA, etc. » JLx, posted by DSCH on November 21, 2003, at 11:25:36
> > I've tried SAMe a couple times, the second time doubling the dose from the first time. From 400 mg to 800 mg I believe it was. The "more" was better, but then after 2 months, I sunk back down into depression and no energy again. This was prior to magnesium supplementation.
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> Perhaps you exceeded your ability to convert homocystiene back into methionine and the homocystiene began to build up. SAM-e shouldn't have the effect of 'consuming' magnesium I think.I only mentioned magnesium because everything has worked differently since I've been supplementing with it, so perhaps my previous trials of SAMe doesn't indicate that much. (Like you with TMG and mg).
You may be right about the homocysteine build-up. I was taking a B-complex with folic acid, but perhaps it wasn't enough.
Larry also had some interesting info re SAMe here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216302.html
I didn't get irritable on SAMe, for me it was poop-out at 2 months, but I thought perhaps the same principle applied.
Another interesting post from Larry http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216171.:
"In simple terms, depression is associated with defects in sulphur metabolism. Methionine is an amino acid with a sulphur atom in it.
Methionine reactics with adenosine (as found in RNA and ATP), at the sulphur atom, to form S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe). The S- just says where the adenosine binds to the methionine. It is the "universal methyl donor", an essential molecule in a vast array of enzymatic processes and DNA transcription. After it donates a methyl group, you're left with S-adenosyl homocysteine. The adenosine is recycled, freeing homocysteine. Here's where problems occur in depressives. Stress blocks the normal recycling of homocysteine to methionine. Homocysteine accumulates while SAMe is depleted. You could take SAMe, but that doesn't fix the homocysteine problem. In fact, it makes it worse. Betaine induces an enzyme (the concentration of the enzyme increases if betaine is detected) called betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase. So, that will recycle homocysteine."
I eat eggs for breakfast usually and in fact sometimes really LOOK FORWARD to eating those eggs, almost a craving. When I was taking SAMe, that wasn't the case. It's a little more unpredictable now on TMG (I also take 500 mg of methionine in the A.M.) not quite the craving, but not the "take it or leave it" feeling on SAMe. Now, weirdly, the last couple days I've been sort-of craving eggs in the evening, which is very unusual. I wonder what this means.
Also note, Larry's comment, "Stress blocks the normal recycling of homocysteine to methionine. Homocysteine accumulates while SAMe is depleted."
You're newly under more stress since the lay off, and I am too this week actually, as I had a final exam in this tax preparer's class I'm taking and interviewed for the job I hoped would result from it....only to find out it would only be for 5 weeks IF I am hired. So, now I'm interviewing somewhere else, and may have to keep looking beyond that. So, I wonder, if my new eggs-in-the-evening thing is related to what Larry says there. Perhaps your lethargy is too.
> > The increased TMG actually feels BETTER than the SAMe...so far anyway. It's only been just this week that I've stepped up to approx. 800 mg 3x/day.
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> That's great! :-)The weird thing is that I'm sleeping better, but this also means it's harder to get up in the morning. Is there an impact from TMG or some changed process related to what TMG does that may also affect cortisol or melatonin?
> I'm giving 2000 mg of TMG tid a try. Also boosting my lecithin and fish oil too and returning to tid with my multi (recommended bid). The only things I'm not raising now are minerals (Ca and Mg) and the grape seed extract. I'm doing this because I've fallen back into lethargy somewhat, though my head has reamined pretty clear. I believe this is likely at least partly due to being laid off from my job and not being able to IM with someone I have taken a fancy to. ;-)Well, sure, being laid off will affect your mood and energy level! That's a major stressor. My condolences. Will it be permanent, or is it due to some kind of slow down?
Magnesium is depleted by stress, btw. Also, re your t.i.d. multi -- how much copper are you taking now then? I don't take a multi because I don't want to get any additional copper. Copper is supposed to be more of a problem with depression for women than men, so perhaps it's not your concern. Interesting comments on copper: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030902/msgs/256493.html, http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030604/msgs/231348.html
poster:JLx
thread:278139
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031122/msgs/282451.html