Posted by Larry Hoover on November 11, 2003, at 9:17:12
In reply to Re: Confused about methylation...Larry H., DSCH, help? » Larry Hoover, posted by JLx on November 11, 2003, at 7:22:16
> > I don't understand Pfeiffer's argument to avoid folate.
>
> Well, I'm glad to hear you say that because it seemed to contradict everything else I've read. What gave me pause is that this is this guy's life's work! "How can he be so wrong?", I thought. I thought I just was misunderstanding this stuff because the chemistry is incomprehensible to me.I think you're comprehending quite well. My thinking is that Pfeiffer didn't keep up with more recent work. His thinking fossilized. Good start, but no finish.
> I've heard that the methylcobalamin is preferred, but not that the cyanocobalamin form of B12 was actually CONTRAINDICATED...is that what you mean there?If the diagrammed pathways were all there were to consider, it would be contraindicated. But that's not what I meant. You do get a benefit from cyanocobalamin, despite the fact that it seems to use up the very stuff you're trying to create, at a molecular ratio of 1:1. It looks like there should be no net benefit, but there obviously is one.
> (If one wants to increase SAMe) I bought some of the methyl form, but have been taking it with the other because I had two bottles of the other.
I take both, too, and for the same reason.
> So the core stuff we want to increase is either/ both the methionine or the anti-homocysteine. Hence the usefulness of TMG, methionine supplementation (or per diet) and other anti-homocysteine agents such as the B vits.That's the take-home message, yes.
> Btw, I know eggs are a dietary source of methionine, and I eat them regularly and even looked forward to eating them...until I started taking SAMe, when they became less of a draw. (I'm a firm believer that the foods we find ourselves craving or drawn to are often an indication of what our body actually NEEDS....although I didn't notice these things very well until I started taking magnesium.)
Cravings can be good indicators, but they can also just be cravings.
> It's enough to make me doubt the entire Pfeiffer Clinic, quite frankly, if this guy is supposed to be one of the big shots there.
There's a lot of good in the Pfeiffer conceptualization. Recognizing some flaws does not invalidate the entire body of work. Unfortunately, recognizing the flaws is the harder part.
> > > So, is folic acid contraindicated for the undermethylated or not?
>
> > My personal opinion is, no, it is not contraindicated. However, you have to "do the experiment" on yourself to have any insight whatsoever.
>
> I've usually taken a B complex but never noticed feeling either better or worse taking it or not taking it suggesting to me that I'm not very sensitive to folic acid in either direction.It can't hurt to take B-vitamins. That's my bottom line concept. Can't hurt, might help, might not notice the help.
> > I don't think it would be that quick. How fast did you respond to SAMe?
>
> Most recently, I felt better within a day or two, but I was also newly supplementing with tyrosine too. When I tried SAMe previously it was also prior to magnesium supplementation. My experience now is that ANYTHING I tried in the past before mg, works differently now.I respond to TMG within one hour. Just curious. I never used SAMe. Too expensive, and if you're prone to hyperhomocysteinemia, it's exactly the wrong thing to use.
> > From your next post:
> > "So, "methionine, calcium, magnesium and B6" is SAMe equivalent? "
> >
> > Presuming you form SAMe in reasonable amounts, i.e. you don't have a genetic defect in SAMe synthesis.
> >
> > There is no clear "one-size-fits-all" answer, IMHO. Try a nutrient, or groups of nutrients(based on reasonable educated guesses), and see if they help you feel better, or not.
>
> Right. Thanks! :)
>
> JL
Welcome.Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:278139
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031104/msgs/278507.html