Posted by hyperfocus on January 4, 2013, at 21:49:34
In reply to Re: CPTSD » hyperfocus, posted by SLS on December 31, 2012, at 22:29:01
> Anything that becomes a persistent change in psychological dynamics is necessarily a manifestation of changes made in brain structure and function. This is the beauty and ugliness of neuroplasticity. Synaptic plasticity allows for environmental adaptability through physiological modification of the connectivity between neurons and neuronal circuits. This is learning. However, the stress produced by chronic stress, particularly chronic traumas, can alter these dynamics in ways that are physiological destructive. Perhaps the most accessible example of this is the effects of stress to produce neurotoxicity via excessive calcium influx into the terminals of glutamatergic neurons. There are changes in the levels of nerve growth and maintenance modulators like BDNF, and of second messenger signaling substances like GSK-3, mTOR and CREB. Quite simply, chronic stress causes things to go out of whack. If traumas occur during periods of accelerated development - like childhood - these altered dynamics can spread and become persistent. PTSD.
>
Yes this is true but the brain is the only machine we know of that can observe it's own workings, rules, goals, and modify those workings, rules, goals. Everyday people with abusive childhoods struggle to deal with the effects of chronic stress on their development. Not just altered and dysfunctional emotional responses, but also, as the article on Developmental PTSD described, with ill-formed cognitive models of the world and other people. But I think it is important to stress to abuse survivors that the brain is not like other machines or body organs -- it is self-aware and self-directing leading to the concept of what we call the mind. Of course with some mental illnesses one is completely helpless against damage to brain structure and function. Still I think PTSD survivors and MI patients in general with confusing and treatment-resistant conditions can benefit tremendously from this assertion that one is not totally powerless against damage to brain structure and function.
>
> > Our emotions, thoughts, behaviors, memories, and perceptions are locked in very complex relationships
>
> These complex psychological relationships are facilitated by complex relationships in brain function, right?
>
They are facilitated but part of the concept of mind is that it is more than the sum of these parts. It's possible to build brain function relationships, albeit slowly and piecemeal, using cognitive and behavioral techniques that stress the independence of conscious action from existing brain functions.> > .....I think that changing just one thing isn't sufficient to get a mind healthy.
>
> Perhaps. But changing one thing can get a mind unhealthy in a hurry.
>
Being on the med roller-coaster +15 years I suppose has left me disillusioned with conventional psychiatry. I can't count how many times I became so hopeful that my condition was improving, only to have that hope fade. Like I said, for me personally it's about where I put the locus of control.The truth is right now symptom-wise I am still mostly in the same. Nothing much has changed wrt my symptoms of PTSD, but I am doing more, I am making progress in certain areas of my life, I am relating better to people, I am coping better with past memories. And as I do more of these things the symptoms seem to be becoming less, relevant, I suppose could be the term.
> Dominoes. Think of what would happen if the path of upright dominoes were branching and looping as are neural circuits of the brain or intracellular second messenger cascades. Knock over one, and...
>
> If you go ahead and pick up and stabilize that first domino, it will still take some time to pick up and arrange the rest (psychotherapeutics).
>
> I don't know. The brain and mind are inextricable. The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
>
I think given the nature of the mind one can do things out-of-order so to speak. The mind can do more than sculpt many parts of the brain, I guess I'm thinking of deaf people who learn to read lips. You can't replace the physiological stuff that is missing or damaged as yet but you can compensate and learn equivalent ways of communicating that do just as well.> The effects of prazosin are not limited to anxiety. Anxiety is NOT a feature of my depression. Yet, prazosin produces a very clean and robust antidepressant effect on me. The effect is global: anergia, anhedonia, hypersomnolence, amotivation, loss of interest, negative thinking, etc. These things resolved practically overnight with prazosin.
The neurobiology of NE receptors is not so straight forward. However, now that my brain is functioning more nominally, I can process psychological issues much better. I don't think we differ too much in our thoughts regarding this. If the biological milieu within which the psyche exists is all screwed up, so, too, will one's thoughts and feelings. However, if one's psychological milieu is all screwed up, so, too, can be the brain functions that are vulnerable to damage or dysregulation by stress.
>
I took atenolol for a while to try the treat the PTSD symptoms and it did help some. I know it's not anxiety treatment when used in PTSD and dysfunctional adrenaline and norepinipherine receptors results in emotional and memory dysfunctions that have nothing to do with anxiety. Have you ever considered amitriptyline? It's supposedly the only antidepressant that is a TrkA and TrkB receptor agonist and a very potent neurotrophic agent. I think amitrip makes my surface symptoms worse sometimes but it's the only AD I'm taking right now, primarily for this neurotrophic effect.
> I agree with the rest of what you say.
>
I realize I might be straying into the pull-yourselves-by-your-bootstraps viewpoint that we all detest and it's not my intention to say what may work for me will work for anyone. I suppose it's the reliance on a neurochemical model for treatment that I've changed my views on. It's also a philosophical thing where I have had to alter my views on what I consider being 'treated' and the things that are important and worthwhile in life. I used to consider my illness to be nothing but a curse but I have fully accepted the possibility that it has happened for my benefit, to make me a better person. I think regaining control of one's life is something MI patients crave the most.
C-PTSD: social phobia, major depression, dissociation.
Asperger's Syndrome.
Currently: 50mg amitriptyline single dose at night. 75mg Lyrica occasionally.
Significantly improving.
poster:hyperfocus
thread:1033465
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121231/msgs/1034685.html