Posted by Bubba81 on August 16, 2012, at 9:50:50
In reply to Re: click this, posted by Yoder on April 1, 2012, at 18:49:55
> A funny thing happened when I got a yen to google TD (aka lingohunnie) to see where his work went, as I check out brain science in general. I found this ongoing feud regarding claims of legitimacy and competing narratives which bleeds into the websites, and is certainly in evidence in this thread.
Ironically, what's not in evidence is that any transcendence is goin' on. The volume of detail and animus devoted to this is exhausting.
For Slade, it does appear that his very identity (not to mention livelihood) is at stake. I thought we needed to subliminate our egos to get to the sweet spot. You don't have to be Jung to notice that the poor fellow is amazed at himself, and it's troubling that he lays claim to Lingo's legacy for fun and profit.
I'm not sure who did what to who and when, but
I appreciated being able to download a free and clean BINC from the Superconsciousness website, as my copy is pretty frayed. I'll skip Neil's "original" wares, lest I get even a little touched by the Bad Karma this cat must be accumulating from his me me me marketing-- instead of the transcendant wisdom he peddles.Don't know what Lingo would make of all this. More useful will be to re-read his wild work, try to "get the airplane off the ground," and remember a true origninal in the process.
Paz
@bwakedanca: A very well written post and to the point. Thanks.
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> Neil: Wow, the Universe works in strange and mysterious ways. I was actually looking up something in a book I am reading prior to doing my taxes and I ran into what I thought was a forum thread that died years ago. Who would have thunk? I would have thought that all of this was water under the bridge. Evidently not. That being said, then it is only right that I give my view of things and help set straight the various untrue remarks you have made, for reasons that bwakedanca states. I must say though that I really wonder what would drive an individual to bring up a dead-thread, and re-stir an entropic situation from years past? I was struck by the idea that you seem obsessed with justifying not only your existence, but the work of Lingo and what you are doing in life. Let the work justify itself, and let the actions justify the individual.
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> First, I use the same login name on all forums not for fear of being "found out," but simply because in the early days of BB's we used "handles" and this is one that I have used for years. I also use it in honor of a friend who passed on. This is a concept that I first learned from Lingo. Back then we called it a "medicine name," and mine was Thunderhawk. Can't say that I really knew the full names of many folks who made their way through Lingo's place, but I did learn to work with them and trust them, and I fail to see where maintaining any sense of anonymity has anything to do with trust.
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> First, Neil did not know me in the capacity at the brain lab that he suggests. In fact, I have maybe met him two or three times at most. Accordingly, he knows little about me and what he does know is mostly heresy. The "old staff" he refers to is a female who I worked with for years at Lingo's, and have not had any correspondence with for decades now--there maybe a second female who I met only when Lingo died. I am curious what this grudge is that I carry, but I certainly will not loose any sleep trying to figure it out. I carry no grudge towards Lingo per se, but I do call out those who misrepresent themselves and the work of Lingo. Well, I did. To be honest, I no longer care about this level of triviality. Life is short, and time is better spent giving to others and being amongst loved ones. We live and learn.
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> 2) Neil denigrates my academic training due to the simple fact that I choose to be an educator. The facts are that I was involved in Fetal Alcohol Syndrome studies in the 70's, perfected a cannulation technique used to inject various chemicals directly into a rat's brain, etc. This I did while per suing my BS at Washington State University. While pursuing my Master's degree I was primarily interested in Artificial Intelligence and building computer models on how the brain processes information and how the individual Self is a unique entity composed of a physical self, intellectual self, emotional self, and spiritual self (this involved statistical analysis and probability theory.) I eventually received a MS in Applied Mathematics. So, that was my training. Was I wrong to say "I am a mathematician/scientist by training...BS and MS" It is somewhat disheartening that people think so lowly of us educators. I should add that I spent many years working with high-risk adolescents, and I should also make another correction. I did not "run" a computer lab, but was a computer science, multimedia, digital audio, and game design instructor who used a computer lab and taught at both high school and college levels.
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> 3) I have no personal vendetta towards Neil. But, if untrue remarks are going to be directed towards me then I will do whatever is necessary to right the wrong. Personally, I don't really care what type of work relationship Neil had with Lingo. The "Real History of The Dormant Brain Lab" would not survive the rigors of academic scrutiny. It is a very biased interpretation, and does not present all of the information that is available. Information that is denigrating towards both parties is omitted in order to cast a favorable light on one. Lingo, had a love-hate relationship with everyone he knew. I could just as easily scan and post letters from Lingo that talk very unfavorably about Neil, but what is the point? There is too much hate/entropy in the world alreadywhy re-divert it my way?
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> When I teamed up with others in an attempt to do something with the intellectual property, I in fact did do a considerable amount of work on my own and in contacting others, etc. I did not "quit"(as implied) to leave Neil the only one left to "do the work." The primary reason why I do not subscribe to Neil's "work" is not out of jealously, but because I feel that he is leaving out some major components in Lingo's work and is not representing it accurately and I have stated this to Neil. There were three primary tools used to attain the various states of cosmic consciousness that Lingo taught. They were: 1) Self-Therapy, 2) Meditation, and 3) Community Service. All of the other things he talked about like "moving forward into the frontal lobes," "amygdala clicking," "multiple orgasm," etc., etc., etc., were secondary results/tools used in per suing the aforementioned, but used more to market the concept than anything else.
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> I never conspired with LG to obtain missing portions of the "manuscript." Echoes of Indiana Jones! Furthermore, "with Yoder's secretive assistance" is just not true. As I remember it, the disagreement was over "whether the material" should be given to the public at no chargethis is where I have always stood, or if one entity should be in sole possession of it and do with it what they want. Furthermore, when I posted the material on my site I DID put a copyright on it to protect the integrity of the material. I have never made a penny off of any of TD's work, nor do I ever intend to. I have also received permission from Lingo's estate to print, and disseminate certain materials, so your attestant of the same means what?
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> 4) Yoder's discontent. I am not jealous of what you have attained in life (I have no idea what you have "attained" in life), nor do I care what Lingo has said or not said about me--like I said before, he has done it with everyone. I have three lovely daughters (one graduates from Colorado College this year and was invited to attend the London School of Modern Dance, at Kent University, UK. There were three openings, and she was one selected.) I have another daughter attending Bowdoin, and have another still at home. I have been happily married for over 25 years, have supported a family, purchased a home, and am now retired. More importantly, I am happy and feel that I have given much to the world and will continue to do so. So, why should I care about what was said of me decades ago or what someone who I barely know says--unless it is a false claim towards me.
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> "Again, I'm not out to get the fellow fired, but that is whom I refer to on that page of documents." Feelings of guilt? Let me explain. Back when all of this was going down is when Neil conspired with a person who we both knew mutually. He got this young man to turn spy on me, and to forward to Neil all of the emails that the young man and I had exchanged. (The fellow is no longer a "friend of Neil's and has apologized profusely for what he did to me. I hear from him a few times a year, but all of this no longer concerns me.) Is this a contradiction? No, I just want to bring out the truth.
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> Anyway, this guy played like he wanted to get at Neil--he latter told me he did this per Neil's instructions. I jokingly said "hack into Slade's computer and steal his email addresses and go from there" or something to that effect. Personally, I have never had the desire to hack into other peoples accounts or the time, nor do I have the tools to do such if I wanted to. When I code, I write programs and that is all. So, this guy is sucking all of this information from me and I naively told him of my medical history. Neil promptly took this information and posted it on various forums, including this one. He would post a list of my meds, and follow it with claims of my being an addict. It was interesting, because when I shared my medical information with the young man I told him that I was declared "permanently and totally disabled with 100% service connection" by the VA, and became disabled while earning my Combat Infantryman's Badge. In other words, had I not been in the Army carrying a M-16, my body would be great. Neil neglected to state this, but only posted info on my meds and continually falsely claimed that I was an addict. Another time he called my home and left a message on my answering machine. The message traumatized my youngest daughter and gave her nightmareshe was going on how I was involved in some conspiracy and brought up "murder/killing." This in itself was pretty bad in my book, but the big one came when I told the young spy guy that I was going up to Denver to take one of my daughter's to a college fair. This information was soon passed on to Neil. At this point in time, Neil saw fit to call my place of employment (he doesn't want to get me fired? It is guilt.) When he called he wanted to speak to the principal, but they would not let him speak to the principal and transferred him to the school police officer. The cop called me in after the weekend and said this guy Neil Slade called. He said: "The guy feared for his life that you were going to go to his place of residence and beat him and possibly kill him." I latter found out that Neil told him I abused drugsgreat thing to say about a teacher to one of his peers. I was personally shocked to say the least. I talked to the cop, found out my legal rights, and then wrote Neil an email saying that if he did not stand down that I would get a restraining order against him. That was the last I heard of Neil, or about any of this and have basically put it out of my life until now. I will admit that the cop and I got a good laugh since I am a small, frail person, pushing 60, and he knew that I was disabled.
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> 6) Plagiarism. Yes, Lingo accused me of such but when I explained to him that what I was sending him were technical notes from a couple of books then he accepted what I was doing. Though I will admit that I should have informed him of my methods in the beginning, but I did notso arrest me! Regarding my web site, it is a Creative Commons site and this is stated on every page. All of the material posted is either in the Creative Commons or I have either paid or asked for permission to use the material. I always give people credit, or try to, and link back to their site. Regarding the work of Lingo's I do not have my name on any of his work. In fact, I just looked up several of the different pages of Lingo's work and his name appears on place or another on the pages. Some of the material is mine, and either has my name or no name. Some of the material is work the TD and I did together and has no name in most cases. You inferring is incorrect, and your "hardly honest" claim is baseless. There has to be intent, and I have no intent to get any credit for any of the material. I could pull all of it, but then it would only be available at one or two sites that want to monopolize it and sell it. Again, what is the real reason/motive for making these claims?
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> 7) Check your facts. I do not sell musical instruments, unless it is one of my personal guitars or something, and I do not conduct any business from my site. Your implications are non-sequiturs. We all calm down with age, wisdom, and knowledge. I believe in the validity of most of TDs stuff, it is the mis-presentation of it that I have found issue with in the past. I also do not need to ride on "your coattails," as I have not seen what I would perceive as a success. I get from 1500-2000 hits a day, and very few are looking a Lingo material. Most of the hits on that page are going to my problem solving stuff.part of my Thesis. Seriously "in a misguided attempt to get under my fingernails?" Neil, there are more important things in life and greater priorities than to try and pull down others. No offense, but I have not given you a second thought in years and I do not find your web site the least bit appealing, nor am I jealous of your work. Maybe things are not going well on your end? I don't know, but rest assured that I am not stealing your web trafficI target DIYers, Let the readers judge: www.co-bw.com
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> Neil, you know you angered me when you were doing the cyber bully thing, threatening me, and calling my place of employment. In response, I wrote a paragraph or two, maybe three or four, that tore many people apart and posted it for two days on my sitein the deep recesses of the file management system I might add. It was catharsis. Obviously you have not checked things out in ages. I knew that the young fellow would go to you and that you would pull it down. Stay current and up-to-date, lest you be left behindthis train rolls faaasst! Yes, I am very familiar with Eccles, McCollough, Weiner, etc.and other classics of neural networking. That was all part of what I was studying in college. Again, what is the point?
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> Why should someone mis-trust an anonymous source any less than the claims of a person with a name, but one that has never been met? Well, even if you meet themthink Madoof.
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> I find it interesting that you are working so hard trying to fit the image of Lingo into a neat little persona/legitimate package. There are reasons why things are what they are. I know what I know, saw what I saw, and heard what I heard. You say: "Lingo was not a member of the academic aristocracy, nor did he ever pretend as much. He was an independent thinker, teacher, and researcher. Certainly in a greater capacity as a scientist than Yoder would claim to be." Ironically, you denigrate me for being a teacher. You know nothing of my independent/creative though processes, yet imply I do not possess such. You say Lingo was a "researcher." Yes, he read a lot of scientific material, a lot of which I sent him over the years, but he did not do research in the traditional sense and this can be misleading to some. Yes, those 35 years of camp. I spent about ten to twelve years up their with Lingo. Sorry, the Psychology Today remark was so offensivehowever true it was.
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> Yes, with experience/knowledge we all are qualified to from an opinion about any subject. The hard part is in accepting criticism of the claims, and when not agreeing with the criticism we may receive we must behave in a civil and non-threatening manner--or at least learn how. I think Lingo would agree with me here.
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> Peace be with you.
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poster:Bubba81
thread:28672
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20120803/msgs/1023412.html