Posted by bulldog2 on April 4, 2010, at 11:40:22
In reply to Re: I doubt I will ever fully recover, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2010, at 18:13:50
> >So what happens you wait 6-12 months and if you >don't get better than ask for meds...Your brain >has now been battered by depression for a half a >year...I don't think that's a reasonable >statrategy..
>
> I do think its a reasonable strategy. The suicide rate has not dropped since the introduction of antidepressants. Sure, the good old fashoned way may be harder in the short term, but if most people recover without meds (which statistically they did), then you wouldn't have millions of people dependant on psychiatric drugs (which permanaently alter brain chemistry in their own right)
>
> LinkadgeA couple questions to clarify your post. There's a bit of confusion here.
1. Do you have a link to this study or the name of the study?
2. What criteria did they use for determining who would participate in this study?
3. I believe your study said most get better. Define most as I guess that could mean anywhere from 51% to 99%.
4. Was this I guess what is termed double blind study? If so what were the results on both sides.
Now just some of my own opinions. You said most get better and therefore some don't get better. This means someone has waited 6-12 months to get better and hasn't gotten better and now its a year later. So now the doctor will dispense meds?
I don't think you understood what I was getting at. Even if your study turns out to be correct I don't think most patients would put up with a doctor who practiced that way. I go to my doc and have been in the blackest depression for several months and I'm looking for some relief. My doc pats me on the back and tells me that this mental anquish will most likely subside after 6 to 12 months. Now he tells me that if I don't feel better after a year to come back again and we'll look at some meds to help me out. Now hang in there he smiles at me. Now after the nurses have pried my hands off Dr. X's throat I would start going to other doctors who would medicate me immediately.
Just an observation of human nature. Many will not wait a week for a cold to go away before asking for antibiotics which do not even work on a cold. (let alone wait 6-12 months )
Most doctors also will not practice this way if they wish to keep people coming to them for treatment.NOW!! if science can figure out which depressive types will resolve on their own and which will not than we have a statistic that is meaningful. That way those who will not resolve on their own can get started now on treatment.
Right now to many symptoms are lumped under depression and treated in a standard way which I believe creates many failures. I believe depression is a group of diseases that probably requires a group of different treatments and in some cases no meds but psycotherapy.Myth No 1. Antidepressants are addictive. They may be for some and I am not questioning that. But I have cold turkeyed my ads many times without a problem. I continue to try new med combos in pursuit of that elusive remission. I also have had friends and acquaintences stop their ads after they were no longer needed without any withdrawal issues.
Myth No 2. Suicide rate. I personally don't believe you can take one statistic and use that to determine wether meds are effective or not effective. You need a myriad of personality measurements before and after to see if the med is effective. There could be other factors in one's life that could lead to suicide. Chronic debiliting disease, chronic pain etc. It is a myth that depression is the only reason one would committ suicide.
So let's look at your comments.In my opinion they're really more opinion than hard science which is okay.
1. It may be a reasonable strategy for you but a 6-12 month waiting period would not be a reasonable for me or many others. I guess it's a matter of choice.
2. The statement about the suicide rate not dropping. That's a hard one to prove. As I stated above you can't take this one meaurement and judge antidepressants based on that. Depression is to complex to be judged on one thing and we can't be sure how accurate the measurements were from the 1950's. More than likely they were undercounted in the 1950s.
3. You mention the old fashioned way. You really could make that statement about modern medicine in general. Probably the majority of symptoms that we go to the doctor about would resolve on their own and in far shorter time than 6 to 12 months. If you think about it maybe we should withhold medical treatment on most illnesses and just wait and see if the sick person becomes well on their own. If the person dies, while that may be tragic there is an upside. Only the strongest survive and live to breed and we end up with a more robust society.
So you may have come up with a strategy that is better for society in general but we just have to expand it to include all illness and in the process weed out the physically and mentally unfit.
> I do think its a reasonable strategy. The suicide rate has not dropped since the introduction of antidepressants. Sure, the good old fashoned way may be harder in the short term, but if most people recover without meds (which statistically they did), then you wouldn't have millions of people dependant on psychiatric drugs (which permanaently alter brain chemistry in their own right)
poster:bulldog2
thread:941785
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100328/msgs/942146.html