Posted by bleauberry on April 9, 2009, at 16:35:27
In reply to Re: 12 ECTs. Not working. Ready to get outta here., posted by uncouth on April 9, 2009, at 15:43:46
> bleu: thanks for your response. your messages are always well thought out, useful, and empathic. So Ixel worked well for you? Can you describe how it felt, compared to other meds? WHy don't you think you could replicate it's effect with a combo of Effexor and Desipramine, for example? So sad that you couldn't tolerate it physically, but you've given me something new to investigate.
>
> Looks like it will be out in the US soon! But until then I can purchase it online. Is it really more powerfull than Effexor/Cymbalta?
>
> Love,
> AlexAlex, I have not tried Effexor. The best I can tell from reading other's experiences is that it is more similar to an ssri than anything. It's other effects, such as on NE, are actually fairly miniscule. I think one of its unstudied functions that makes it different is the opioid connection, which would explain why it feels a little different than ssris but also has the nastiest side effects of them all.
Cymbalta I have tried. It was a downhill deep plunge the whole time on it.
Ixel is very different. I do not think its "differentness" can be explained by simply calling it a balanced serotonin/ne reuptake inhibitor. There is something different about it.
All I know is, the 2nd day on it I was already feeling noticeably better. More active, cooking, playing guitar, talking. Sleep was bad though, and appetite was bad. By day 3 anxiety was gone. Sleep got awesome. Then a few days of backtracking, like maybe I was getting worse than I started. Then gradually each day was a tiny bit better than the day before. By the end of two weeks, I was probably 40% better than I had started, and I was still on the minimum dose of 25mg. That says a lot for a drug to do that at such a low dose in such a short time for someone who failed ECT and lots of other meds. I wouldn't say Ixel is more powerful than effexor or cymbalta, but that for me it had something special that they completely didn't have at all. It is a different drug that I don't think has anything similar to it.
Would some ssri+desipramine do the same thing? Well, in theory, it seems like it could. In reality, I don't know. These drugs do so much more than we are aware of. The simple stuff we know about, such as serotonin or NE reuptake, or 5th antagonism, or whatever, is only the tip of the iceberg.
I think my message is that post-ECT there is still lots of hope. That was proven to me by a drug I thought for sure would make me worse just like all the others did. It didn't. It surprised the heck out of me.
SSRI+TCA combos. Ixel (Savella in USA). Nardil. Parnate. Zyprexa or Abilify or Risperdal trials with any of them. Ritalin augmentation. Sometimes a rounded package such as a stimulating Parnate with a relaxing Klonopin opens a whole new world. Bottom line, don't return to strategies you've already tried. Think outside the box. Look for new stuff, new combos, new mechanisms.
And as I said, if a med is working so poorly that one feels ECT is the only way out, well, that med has no place in that person's life. It is probably making things worse. When we are on certain meds for a while, we don't realize it is those meds themselves making us feel so bad, not so much the illness underneath it all.
poster:bleauberry
thread:889549
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090408/msgs/889681.html