Posted by Devastated Mother on January 31, 2006, at 16:56:13
In reply to Re: Suicide on Effexor, posted by simon levane on January 31, 2006, at 16:43:07
> > > > Simon,
> > > >
> > > > Your comments helped more than anything else could. Did you know of the notice on the insert (I don't know how long the note has been there, but from my perspective, it requires the doctor to at least ask the person if they can inform the patient's relatives, or friends, or someone with whom they have regular contact of the dangers of Effexor. My son had no real suicidal tendencies. He was just reasonably sad because of some difficulties he had had in months leading up to his death. I believe that, in addition to being given really dangerous medication, he was mis-diagnosed. But proving that .... yeah, well, I have so little respect left for doctors, especially hearing how they treated you and your daughter.
> > > >
> > > > --DM
> > >
> > > Dear DM...
> > > if I tell you the madness of it, you would hardly believe this is possible. When I took the prescription for Effexor to the pharmacist two days before my daughter's suicide, he asked me to delay till the next day so he could speak to the doctor about the high dosage. I went back the next day to get the drug not realizing it had ANY risk. The pharmacist told me that the doctor said it was OK.. so I left there feeling very very re-assured and glad that he had taken the trouble. I found out later that there was an existing caution for Effexor and that on that very day there had been an alert issued by Health Canada for the drug. When I asked my family doctor about this after my daughter's death, he simply told me that he did not read the monograph for every drug he prescribes. He was relying on the psychiatrist's recommendation as the validation, and the psychiatrist never told us anything EITHER!!!!
> > > In all the years of my daugher's troubles, no one sat us down and gave us a clear understanding of the risks of her illness. I later learned that for comorbid factors such as drug abuse, the risk of suicide for patients like my daughter was 50%, and the risk for suicide without those factors was 10%..
> > > I never knew that.. no one told me.. and I had this belief that she would never do such a thing. I still don't believe she intended this end, but that the drugs simply enabled her to act out her impulse not truly realizing it was a finality.
> > > I still feel more guilty than anyone..
> > >
> > > SL
> > >
> >
> > Medical Boards should be told when doctors do not live up to the "do no harm" that they are sworn to uphold. Talking to a doctor is impossible for a lay person, since doctors always think they know more than we do. Medical Boards are their peers, and should at least investigate this. Even at this point, I do not think it is too late to make that report. I urge you to do so. Doctors should have to be answerable to someone when they do something that takes a life.
> > --dm
>
> Dear DM
> the fact is that when there are a multiplicity of factors such as diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder, previous suicide attempts in history, known drug abuse, then the doctor is basically off the hook in a flash. The best we could do was have our complaint on his record. And in fairness, he was not the only doctor who failed, but his selfish attitude and his personal space of not wanting to deal with parents were not best for our daughter, but only suited his needs. I know from reading about best practices for patients with this disorder that working with parents is CRUCIAL to helping them. I was struggling with the manifestations of my daughter's illness frustrated that my bright and beautiful daughter could not somehow get her act together. I just did not see the depth of her pain because she was so "up" and could be demanding, and self-serving and somehow disregarded the feelings of others in how she acted to get what she wanted. What I didn't see was that she had actually become an addict. The behaviour was driven by her illness. It is not as if I was not seeing doctors for help, but the scale of her illness was not explained to me in a way that I really understood... and I am not uneducated, but this was so close to the skin and I was in the middle of it for many years. I needed help to help her.
> If this last doctor or another doctor had just looked at the situation clinically, they should have been blowing whistles and alarms at the risk. Instead they either had limited information or were simply ignorant of the situation - in the way a doctor forgets about the patient when they put that file back on the shelf.. Out of sight, out of mind... but prescribing is a quick.. sure go ahead it's ok..
> There have been cases of medical disasters causing the death of children -- two cases in Toronto about 15 or so years apart, and in both cases the lawyers for the institution and for the doctors or others who had clearly failed in their medical roles resisted admitting to this. One woman who lost her son because he was complaining of stomach aches and one of the residents was "sure" that it was psychosomatic because she couldn't diagnose what was wrong with him and even forced him to clean up his own vomit.. he died on the operating table when they finally realized he had a twisted bowel and had been telling the truth from day one. The mother fought for about 10 years till they finally admitted that the doctor was clearly at fault. She got an apology and her costs I believe as well as a settlement, but it was not the money... She fought for her son after his deat h so that this would not happen to other children. This happened in the most famous Children's Hospital in Canada, and the best hospital in spite of this.. Imagine.. ten years of fighting in the courts without the resources of a huge institution.
> It is very difficult in cases of psychotrophic drugs to have a direct cause and effect. After all, "she was depressed, and depressed people kill themselves."..
> There is a survivor advocacy group on Yahoo, (Canadian) that strives to educate both the public and professionals to help prevent suicides. OH, so tragically, suicide is the second cause of death of young people from 16 - 24, the first one being auto accidents.
> I wish I had known so much when my daughter was alive, but the thought of her suicide was so horrific that I could not bear to think it was possible. If only I had dared to face this as a reality. I think for many parents taking that leap to facing the real possibility of it happening must be excruciatingly difficult. I could not face it when my daughter was alive. Now I face it every day, and I know from talking to other parents, that they could not imagine it happening. Not my child. How could they do this to us (as we are still alive and they are gone). When we ask "how could they do it to themselves?" the answer is that we should have been able to protect them.. but we failed.
> that is how I feel.
> SLAnd I, dear friend in pain. My son had had no prior attempts, and had no real reason in his life for this. He had no underlying anything that would have led us to expect this. I suppose no one ever does. It is indeed very hard to know that we were not able to protect them, especially from these ignorant physicians who took them from us.
poster:Devastated Mother
thread:601406
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060129/msgs/604894.html