Posted by Squiggles on December 1, 2005, at 13:07:47
In reply to Re: Forever meds, posted by Simcha on December 1, 2005, at 12:44:00
> Yes, I've been told the same thing, that I need medication for life, most likely. I've had too many major depressive episodes. Med changes always rock my world. My family of origin exhibits classic signs that mental illness is genetic and organic for us. I did therapy for ten years with some success. But nothing has been like the experience of taking medications AND being in therapy.
...........I did have some therapy myself upon initiation
and diagnosis of bipolar, 25 years ago. It
helped me get into the "shoes" so to speak and
talk. It was very kind of my dr. to provide
both. I do feel that I am a bit resistant
to "staff" though, and would prefer to speak to
a friend, which I do.
.............
>
> Maybe I'm biased because I just graduated with a masters in counseling psychology and I'm in training to be a psychotherapist. And I know from experience that medication and therapy works better for depression than either treatment alone.
...........No, that's not a bias, but experience -- which is
good.
...........
>
> To argue that changing a person's behavior and thought patterns is difficult and thus talk therapy doesn't work does not make for a cogent arguement. Cancer is very difficult to treat and most often kills. Yet chemotherapy, radiation, and other treatments halt or even reverse cancer, even if for a short time. Would you not use cancer treatment due to the difficulty of fighting cancer for someone who has cancer?
..............I don't believe that the analogy is appropriate.
In the case of a personality, it has taken
many years to develop biologically - the habits
have actually ingrained certain responses in the
brain. In the case of other organs of the body,
they may be treated and changed but they will
never be conscious. You may be conscious of
their state through pain, but when you are
conscious of your emotions, you are not connected
to the neurological aspects through your
experience.
................
>
> I compare mental illness to cancer because it can be deadly. Mental illness is often progressive. Talk therapy and medication have both proven effective for arresting and treating mental illness.
................I agree - it is surprisingly serious. And,
I am not entirely against therapy-- it can
be very helpful when you are in a critical
situation. But as I said in my previous message
on this topic, it strikes me as a rather
"cosmetic" help in comparison to the more
pragmatic needs of someone who is mentally ill -
such as where to go for necessities, whom to
speak to about referrals to doctors, how to
get a lawyer, where is there a food bank, stuff
like that.
..............
>
> Now, as for the arguement that talk therapy does not change brain chemistry, I'd like to add more recent findings that I can find on the Internet if it's wanted. Recently, behaviorists have shown that our brains develop and change due to experience in the world. This means that experience develops the brain. If so, then chemical balance changes with development. We are talking about biological development.
..............Most of those changes end by the age of 12.
.................
>
> There is a famous study done on Romanian orphans. These orphans were not touched, handled, or given much in the way of stimulation. Upon examination, researchers took note that their brains were underdeveloped and smaller than they should be. Once these orphans were in situations where they received stimuli their brains developed and grew.
..............Yes, I stuided psychology too - that is early
childhood deprivation and they have done
(**** them) such experiments on animals as well;
the offspring turn out introverted, depressed,
mentally underdeveloped and sometimes even mute,
if not from organic causes, just simply from not
learning to vocalize.
................>
> It has been shown that adult brains can develop and grow new cells too. And it has been shown that experience can have effects on the structure and chemistry of the adult brain. Thus going to see a therapist is an experience. If it is a positive, corrective, experience then we see positive changes in brain structure and chemistry. So, in actuality, talk-therapy can be seen as a drug. The experience of talk-therapy has been shown to have lasting effects on neurochemistry.
................Well, OK -- I agree partly. Maybe you just have to have a really stimulating therapist :-); Hmm,
let me see, if i were to choose one, I think
I would definitely go for someone like Robin Williams or Steven Martin -- alas, they are
comics.
.............Thanks Simcha for your input. If my dr. refers me to a therapist, and our government can afford it
(oops - they're private) I may consider it. It's
not for everyone though.Squiggles
poster:Squiggles
thread:583389
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20051126/msgs/584219.html