Posted by Larry Hoover on May 9, 2005, at 11:27:34
In reply to Re: Urine Test to Measure Neurotransmitter Levels? » Larry Hoover, posted by Elroy on May 5, 2005, at 6:49:05
> I had the fancy blood test done. That was the one which showed the moderately low dopamine, very low normal range epinephrine, and the extremely low norepinephrine (way off the chart, BELOW the bottom of the normal range).
Have you tried high dose vitamin C, for example? The conversion of dopamine to NE requires vitamin C and B6. You may have a defect in activating B6, too. You may need P5P instead of B6.
I'm sorry if we've been over this before. I have trouble remembering who I talked to about what. I remember the what part, not the who.
> The endocrinologist said that was a great result as it meant that my adrenal gland tumor was not only benign, but that it was NOT a "Pheo" tumor.
>
> The fact that I had circulating levels of very low adrenaline meant nothing to him.Did you dose with adrenal supports? Pantothenate, vitamin C (again), vitamin E, zinc, magnesium.
What are you pituitary hormones like? Are your CRH and ACTH within normal range?
> Now my psych doc was puzzled as I have had severe anxiety (kept at bay only by daily Xanax XR, and then just barely as it is always lurking in the background) for almost a year now and she would have (in her words) bet serious money that those levels would have been not only high, but very high.
>
> Well, what about the BEAM Scans (I think that's what they are called) as used by Dr. Eric Braverman and highlighted in his books and practice? Anyone have any experience with that testing protocol as relates to determining actual neurotransmitter levels?The only issue I have with BEAM is that nothing has been published. They claim to be developing a comparative database that provides treatment guidance, but I have not seen anything that validates the methodology. They claim it works, without evidence that it does.
> Or possibly SPECT/PET (single photon/positron emission computed tomography) scans? Anyone have any experience with that testing protocol? Just seems that determining what NTs are actually deficient makes more sense than just throwing serotonin enhancement at every mental problem....
Same problems with SPECT. The existence of abnormalities does not guide treatment modalities.
> Anyway, I personally would still think that 24-hour urine tests of neurotransmitters would be beneficial just from the viewpoint of knowing what overall body levels were even aside from what was coursing through the brain. Low levels of dopamine, NE and epinephrine along with low levels of cortisol and DHEA would probably be a pretty strong signal that one might be approaching adrenal fatigue, for example (which is NOT a good medical condition to be in).Absolutely true, but did you ask your doctors if they even believe in the entity called adrenal fatigue/adrenal exhaustion? I would bet they do not.
> BTW, I did talk my psych doc into starting me on a dose of 5mg Selegiline twice a day to hopefully start getting those levels up. I have apparently adapted at those low levels (and they've been ery low for a while) as our inclusion of DLPA and / or Tyrosine was immediately felt to be "too much" with an increase in agitation and increase in some of my phsycial symptoms that have been ongoing. In fact, had to start out at 2.5mg once a day (half tablet) and then work up to 5mg once a day and then gradually up to 5mg twice a day and then maybe look at adding in Tyrosine or DLPA....Low-dose selegiline most likely works via a mechanism that is tangential to catecholamine neurotransmission, in my opinion. Just what that is, I'm not clear on. Once you begin to saturate the MAO-B sites, the crossover to MAO-A does directly affect catecholamines.
> Just to track the overall body's NT levels have recently asked by endo to include 24-hr urine test (General Assessment Neurotransmitter Test Panel - tracks levels of Serotonin, Dopamine, Epinephrine, Norepinephrine, GABA, PEA, Histamine and Glutamate) along with my monthly 24-hr UFC for cortisol.
>
> ElroyI hope you don't forget that all the testing in the world is for your cognitive experience.....the trying to understand part. It's the experiments you do, the interventions, that are actually of any use at all. They provide the only real data for further consideration. You do experiments, and see what happens. Hypothesis testing, with (hopefully) some drift towards the theoretically optimal intervention.
Best, Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:493827
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050504/msgs/495549.html