Posted by Ron Hill on May 24, 2003, at 14:16:35
In reply to Hi, I'm new!! - Introduction - NADH was a bitch , posted by samplemethod on May 24, 2003, at 8:13:54
Hey Sample,
Welcome to pbabbleland.
> Anyway i bought NADH yesterday, (after reading some posts, especially Ron's trial). I tried it today (5mg). It flushed me, it gave me a headache that lasted over 8 hours, it stimulated me in the morning, but it didnt really feel nice, made me a little more anxious i guess, or just wired. I guess you could also say I was irritable... Ron says he got that way after weeks of taking it, so i dunno.
Based on your reaction, it doesn’t sound like Enada NADH is a good fit for you. You are attempting to treat your mild depression and anxiety, correct? Please reply with a list of your specific symptoms. It is my opinion that Enada NADH is best suited to treat atypical depressive symptoms (e.g.; anhedonia, anergy, low motivation, apathy, hypersomnia, etc) attributable to dopaminergic pathway problems. If your depression is not atypical, other supplements (or medications) might serve you better.
> Anyone have any thoughts on this... other ways to take it? other things to take it with to make it work better....im thinking of trying TMG as Ron has suggested. though i dunno why that would work to make it less stimulative and less irritating??
I agree; TMG is activating in and of itself so, at least at face value, it would not seem logical that it would make Enada NADH less stimulating. However, it's not that TMG makes Enada NADH less simulative and less irritating in a direct fashion, but instead, the TMG seems to extend the duration of effectiveness of an Enada NADH dose and, as a result, the irritability quotient is lowered indirectly by being able to reduce the NADH dosing frequency.
For example, in my (anecdotal) case, without TMG I needed to take 2.5 mg of Enada NADH once every four days in order to keep the atypical depression demons at bay. However, with the addition of 250 mg/day of TMG, I only need to take 2.5 mg of Enada NADH once per week. Therefore, by reducing the dosing frequency, my irritability is reduced.
Maybe TMG without the Enada NADH would help you. However, I hesitate to make any suggestions until I’ve seen your list of symptoms.
> Next on my list to try is L-theanine, and nicotinamide(btw i enjoy flushing)
I’ve not tried L-theanine so I can not comment on it. However, per a recommendation by johnj, I started taking 250 mg/day of vitamin B3 about five days ago. I’m currently taking niacin (nicotinic acid) but I plan to conduct a trial of niacinamide (nicotinamide) in place of the niacin within the next week or two. But I’m not going to change anything right away because the niacin is doing such an incredible job treating my irritability that I absolutely refuse to run the risk of rocking the boat. My words can not fully express how happy I am with the niacin trial thus far. I realize that it is early in the trial, but so far niacin (and/or perhaps niacinamide?) appears to be the final missing piece(s) in my brain chemistry stabilization project. Let me explain.
I am bipolar II and my symptoms fall into three main categories (presented in order of most enjoyable to most hated): 1) Mildly Euphoric Hypomania (tons of great ideas but jump from one uncompleted project to another without finishing anything, high energy, somewhat over-inflated self-confidence, very optimistic can-do attitude, tendency to be socially inappropriate, talkative, risk-taking behaviors, lessened need for sleep, tendency to overspend, etc); 2) Atypical Depression (anhedonia, anergy, low motivation, apathy, hypersomnia, very low self-confidence, negative self-talk – woe is me I’ll never get better, pessimistic doom-and-gloom, etc); 3) Dysphoric Mood States (GRRRRRRRRRR!!, flash rage, very low tolerance to frustration, anal retentive bordering on OCD-like thought patterns, highly critical of myself and others, negative self-talk -- this ain’t friggin fair, in your face get outta my way demeanor, etc).
The good news is that I now have medication and supplements on board that successfully treat each of these three categories of symptoms. Lithobid (600 mg/day, 0.4 mEq/l blood level) successfully treats my hypomania, Enada NADH and TMG keep me out of depression, and the recent addition of niacin has my dysphoric mood states under control. I’m hopeful that this cocktail has long-term efficacy.
I take many vitamins and supplements, and I won’t bore everyone by listing them all, but a couple deserves honorable mention. Magnesium (800 mg at bedtime each night) is a great sleep aid and seems to help balance my brain chemistry, fish oil provides me some pretty good mood stabilizing and antidepressive benefits, and I consider phosphatidyl serine to be worthwhile. Lastly, if you enjoy the flush, take niacin. Niacinamide does not cause a flush in most people (or so I’m told).
Best wishes.
-- Ron
poster:Ron Hill
thread:228795
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030520/msgs/228869.html