Posted by Larry Hoover on November 8, 2002, at 9:52:11
In reply to Re: PTSD/Social Anxiety-Herbals » Larry Hoover, posted by pelorojo on November 7, 2002, at 18:39:17
> > I think norepinephrine (noradrenaline) is actually the key player. It's secreted by the adrenals, and in some respects, dysregulates all the others.
>
> Ahh--do you have any recommended reading? I had picked up the serotonin/gaba/DA concept from this website: http://www.socialfear.com/> But it sounds like you're saying NE is at the core of the problem by dysregulating the others. Do you have any favorite references on the topic you could point me to?
http://www.psych.org/pnews/00-05-19/stress.html
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/noradanx.htm
http://www.ncptsd.org/treatment/cq/v7/n4/southwick.html
If you can modulate noradrenaline (norepinephrine), you reduce CRF, and all that flows from that.
> > Whatever. Theories aren't going to make you well. What I'm getting at is that you need to do a series of trials with n=1. You have to try interventions, assess the outcome, go off the intervention, re-assess, and go on it again. That's the only way to know what works for you. I tried rhodiola after someone I knew had astounding results, including sleep normalization. It exacerbated *my* insomnia, and made *me* more anxious. No thought experiment will tell you anything with any certainty.
> >
> Oh I agree -- trying is the only way to know. I want to use the theory though to help me choose what to try in what order -- in the hopes it will be quicker or more cost-effective. Is there another, more rational approach?Although we share patterns with one another, we remain unique. That's why you can't apply statistics to individuals.
> >
> > I'd stay away from 5-HTP. You bypass the rate-limiting step, which your body uses to limit the amount of serotonin in general circulation. You don't want serotonin in your blood, but 5-HTP will do that, because the aromatic-decarboxylase enzyme is found in every organ compartment.
> >
> > You can buy tryptophan for veterinary purposes. It is of equal quality to pharma grade.
> >
> What is inherently bad about serotonin in the blood?Phen/fen (the diet prescription combo) and carcinoid tumours are pretty good arguments against serotonin in the blood. Also, do a google search on Steve Harris, 5-HTP in the newsgroup sci.med.nutrition
>Also, isn't it possibly good that 5-HTP skips the rate-limiting step (and that's why it works)? I mean if you are stuck at a suboptimal homeostasis in re: serotonin levels, wouldn't you want to "nudge" that homeostasis to a different level?
Yes, but you don't want to bypass normal feedback modulation. Encourage your body to do better, but don't use a sledgehammer.
>Could you use the 5-HTP in a pulse fashion (instead of chronically) to help that along?
I suppose. Still, I'd stick with tryptophan.
>Any favorite resources on this topic?
See the Harris thread on 5-HTP.
>
> >
> > I forget what theanine does, but DLPA gives two bangs for the buck. It's a precursor to the feel-good PEA, as well as being converted into tyrosine.
> >
>
> Could DLPA conceivably increase cortisol if it raises tyrosine & DA (i.e., DLPA-tyrosine-DA-NE-adrenalin/epinephrine-cortisol)? It seems like anything that raises dopamine or norepinephrine secretion would raise cortisol, wouldn't it?You actually want cortisol's feedback inhibition of CRF. CRF does a lot of nasty things, if it is secreted at high levels. So does ACTH, quite separately from CRF.
>I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, just trying to get a handle on it.
It's exceedingly complex, because the body doesn't do things in a vacuum. Changing one parameter always changes others. That's where we retreat to art and intuition. You become an artist by doing.
>
> You seem very knowledgeable about SJW! I've been trying to find extract WS 5570 (the one standardized to 4% hyperforin) but I don't think it's available in the U.S. Would you know where to locate it ?WS 5572 is sold in the United States as Nature's Way brand called Perika. It's standardized at 3% hyperforin.
> >
> >
> >>
> > I think you may need a slight adjustment in attitude. Rhetorically, why do you think it is that Olympic teams are largely composed of athletes in their late teens and early twenties? There are changes which come with age, and PTSD might well 'age' some parts of us a little faster than we'd like. Comparisons of your 'now' self to your past self may be maladaptive.
> >
> Oh I need a huge adjustment in attitude! But I'm not getting your point here.PTSD changed you. It's permanent. Your adaptability has been used up. That said, you still have manipulations which will help.
> >
> > Just so long as you're not thinking 'cure'.
>
> I rely on my tenacious desire to get better. I don't expect a cure but I don't expect no cure, either.Tenacity is a great attribute. I see overcoming PTSD like the effect of compounding interest. Little bits of invested capital, over time, with interest, accruing substantial benefit. Over time, bit by bit.
> >
> thanks so much for your thoughts! I'm impressed by your knowledge and look forward to learning more from you.
>
> regards
> KenIt's a work in progress. Glad to interact with you.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:126446
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021108/msgs/126950.html