Posted by Chloe on June 17, 2002, at 18:07:53
In reply to My Story (a bit long) » Chloe, posted by fachad on June 17, 2002, at 0:52:44
> >Hey, if you feel like sharing, what's your story?
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> My story goes like this. For as long as I can remember, I felt like something was "wrong". When I was in Elementary school, I used to always ask my pediatrician if he would do blood tests, because although I did not have any specific symptoms, I felt like crap much of the time.
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> Today, that would probably be diagnosed as childhood depression, but then it was dismissed as nothing. The docs usually granted me the blood work, which of course always showed nothing wrong.
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> I had several episodes of depression in middle and high school, but I was brought up in a very fundamentalist religion, and I attributed my depression, which included crying a lot and not eating to "spiritual difficulties".
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> In my late teens in college I renounced all religious belief and much of my severe depression abated. But that feeling like crap most of the time never left me. I tried all sorts of things to feel better like exercise, good diet, vitamins and herbs, internal cleansing, etc., but nothing really worked.
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> In my late twenties Prozac came out and all the craze with "better than well" and "personality change" and etc. So I thought maybe I had been depressed all this time and that ADs would make me feel good and feel good about myself and that that ADs were what I had needed all this time.
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> So I got Prozac, first 20mg/day, then 40mg/day and although I took it for a year, it did not really help.
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> Then I came across an article that suggested that Wellbutrin was more effective in depression that was more toward eating too much and sleeping too much. So I got Wellbutrin. After a few months, I decided that the exhausted feeling that was really my worst symptom was not being helped, so I wanted to try something different.
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> My pdoc gave me Paxil, which is the shortest trial of any drug in my life. It just made me feel awful, and I quit it after three days.
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> I then asked my pdoc for desipramine; it is by far the most potent NE uptake med and it has the lowest values for H1, Ach, and other side effect causing blockade. I took that for about 3 weeks, and then I could not stand the dry mouth and constipation any more.
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> So my pdoc gave me Zoloft. It wasn’t too bad, and I was tired of trials, so I just took it for about three years. I was gradually feeling worse, but I never attributed it to the Zoloft.
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> Then on the old "Psychopharmacology Tips" that was the original site of Dr. Bob I read about the SSRI induced "frontal lobe" apathy syndrome. It is caused by the interactions between serotonin and dopamine, and it leads to lethargy, apathy, and fatigue. I realized that those problems had become much worse in me since I started taking Zoloft, maybe since I started Prozac!
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> About this time Effexor was just being introduced. It was being marketed as "Prozac Plus" and the NE uptake was supposed to be more energizing and etc. So I stopped Zoloft and started Effexor.
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> Effexor caused dry mouth for me, as well as constipation and sexual problems. I endured it for about three weeks then quit. Back then there was not as much awareness of AD discontinuation syndrome; but I suffered immensely from quitting Effexor.
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> While still trying to stay on Effexor, I had suggested to my pdoc to try Ritalin to both combat the sexual side effects and to reverse the SSRI Induced Apathy. Both ideas came from Dr. Bob's Psychopharmacology Tips.
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> Well, Ritalin really worked, but I did not see it at the time. After quitting Effexor, I started Serzone. It was not supposed to cause weight gain, or sexual problems, or sleep problems. I took it for a year or so, then I realized that the Ritalin was what was really helping me.
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> I quit Serzone and took only Ritalin for about 5 years. Those were the best 5 years of my life. I felt good, finally. My mood was good and I did not feel like crap. I could not believe how well Ritalin worked, and I was irritated that it had not been tried earlier.
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> Then I had a few severe psychosocial stressors, and was hit with another major depressive episode. I had felt that all the ADs I was on before were of questionable worth, but this was bad and I had to start something. I chose Prozac, because I had not remembered having any side effects, and I knew the patient was running out in about a month, so it would be dirt-cheap.
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> Within two days of starting Prozac, I had terrible insomnia. Then I realized that all that early morning awakening that was used to further confirm my diagnosis of depression was just a side effect of the SSRIs! So both the insomnia and the fatigue/lethargy which were considered part of my depression, were really just medication side effects.
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> Those two experiences, the SSRI induced apathy and the SSRI induced early morning awakening, have really given me a negative attitude about SSRIs. I am also on the alert for med caused side effects being mistaken for psych disorder symptoms.
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> Earlier this year I switched my pstim from Ritalin to Dexadrine. I felt like I needed something stronger to reverse the increased SSRI Apathy/Lethargy caused by the Prozac. So far Dex has been OK, but I actually think Ritalin is a superior med for me. Since starting Ritalin many years ago, I have overall felt much better, and pstims will always be my primary medication.
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> During the whole Zoloft/Efffexor/Serzone era I had taken doxepin for sleep as needed. I know this sounds odd, but when I started Ritalin I started sleeping so much better, and didn't need dox anymore until I re-started Prozac.
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> I didn't really want to restart dox because I had lost some weight and kept it off for awhile, and I did not want the weight gain risk that comes with so many psych meds, including TCAs.
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> So my pdoc gave me Ambien. It really knocks me out, but it wears off after about 4 hrs. So I went back to dox for awhile and did OK, no weight gain. Later, I tried Ativan, but it left me groggy and melancholy the next day. Then I came across the trimip articles, and that's where I'm at now.
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> I think by the end of the year I'll be able to discontinue the Prozac and the trimip, and be back to just Dexadrine.
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> If the idea of stimulant monotherapy for depression seems odd to you, take a look at a few other postings I've done on this board.
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> Ritalin for SSRI Induced Apathy Anergia:
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> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97130.html
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> Ritalin is not marketed as AD:
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> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020307/msgs/97442.html
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> Re: Dexedrine Tolerance? A Theory:
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> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020215/msgs/94906.htmlThanks for telling my your story. It's amazing how many of us have struggled with depression for most of our lives. It's so difficult when depression occurs early in development, because I think it affects how you think as an adult. It takes a lot of therapy and retuning, to change some of the negative thinking and poor self esteem that accompany depression, IMO.
Med changes and trials are so hard on the body. I see that you too have tried your share...
I, like you thought that my life would be "fixed" once Prozac came out. I had been on 125 mgs of amitrip. for about 5 years. I was in such a haze, addicted to diet soda(so thirsty!!!), just trying to get through school. But as you say, the SSRI"s are NO panacea, and I too, think I developed the "early morning wakening" syndrome when I started prozac. Never noticed it on a Ami...My sleep was like anesthesia. But these new, *wonder* SSRI's that are supposed to be so great, carry a whole host of new problems, insomnia, anxiety, sexaul dysfunction, "poop out," ect.I have returned to early morning wakening even on Doxepin, believe it or not! I awaken with the sun, and I sleep so lightly if at all til I get up. I am very calm and sometimes even a little fatigued during the day, but today was not bad at all. Probably because the sun came out after 3 days. I may need to bump up the doxepin, but I wonder if I will help with *extending* my sleep??? This was one of my concerns about it's shorter half life than ami. With ami I never stirred until 8am. But at least with Dox, I can pee!
But, back to your story...Ritalin was a saviour to me,too. During my years of prozac and Mellaril, I was extremely anergic. it was hard to motivate, and I was so teary...Pdoc Rx'd Ritalin, and I perked right up. I had such an amazing out look on life, everything was possible, I was so happy to be alive. But by the end of the day, I would CRASH so hard. I was back in that depressed state where everything is black, and there is no point to anything. It was very disruptive. So pdoc Rx'd Ritalin SR 20 mgs, and 1-2 per day, depending on if I was out all day, smoothed out some of the highs and lows, and the crashes were less frequent. And as you report, sleep was good.
I can see why stims would be a good sole AD for some who don't have issues with anxiety or mania. They are extremely effective for "non-addictive" personalities. IMO, they can change a dark world to one with light and hope. BUT, since I no longer have the major tranquilizers, stimulants are out for me. I get so anxious and grind my teeth, can't be still etc. I so miss the AP's at tiny doses, of course. But they made my thinking clearer and made me cope better in general. It's just such a shame they are so destructive to the nervous system. Another thread...
I too, tried to change to Serzone after years of prozac and zoloft (pooped out). It made me very erratic and overemotional, not to mention some flushing/sweating probs from which I was trying to switch . There is a lot lacking in the available AD's for folks with challenging depressions and mood irregularities. And the side effects that *most* people get, are quite unpleasant. It is nice to have this board to help each other out through the rough med transitions, or to just learn what might be a good alternative/change to the current regime.
I am sorry you are experienceing extra stressors right now. I, too hope soon you can back to just being on a stimulant. However, I thought I read that ritalin worked best for you. Why do you want to return to Dex, then? Did I misunderstand?
Thanks for sharing your story and links. I am also so glad you gave me enough information and encouragament to change TCA's. I really like Doxepin MUCH better. I just wish I could log in more than 5 hours. With ami it was 8. Do you think this is dose related or a half life issue?Take care,
Chloe
poster:Chloe
thread:108844
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020617/msgs/110166.html