Posted by JohnX2 on March 28, 2002, at 13:32:34
In reply to Re: Do Lamictal Provigil counteract each other? » JohnX2, posted by SLS on March 28, 2002, at 8:29:58
> Hi folks.
>
> I wrote this along another thread:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/100704.html
>
> John, it is almost scary how similarly we react to drugs. I bet Serzone would work for me (partially or otherwise). I am guessing that my positive reaction to Zyprexa, Risperdal, and Geodon were in large part due to their 5-HT2a antagonism.
>
> > Did you get a dopamine kick from provigil?
> >
> > That medicine worked for 2 hrs for me before pooping out!
>
> Me too.
>
> > I've looked at this stupid poopout thing inside out.
>
> > Adderall would poopout in 3 days like clockwork,
>
> Me too with Dexedrine - on several occasions. 3 days.
>
> Scary.
>
> Memantine?I want to give it a run. I think I can get a script. I think the medicine is harmless if it doesn't help. In fact at this point after getting a little dystonia, I wouldn't mind having some neuroprotection. My short silly Wellbutrin trial with dxm worked (The wellbutrin didn't give me tinnitus or poop out). Have you ever thought about trying memantine?
>
> I think there may be some profound significance to the number of days that these responses last - 3. For me, 3 days is exactly how long my transient responses to TCAs, MAOIs, and inoffensive have been. This has been a consistent phenomenon for me over the 20 years that I have been treated.
>
> I have seen the number "3" pop up quite frequently on Psycho-Babble.
>
> It is possible that the number "3" is the key to our doors.
>My feeling is YES! An I personally believe that if I am taking medicines that somehow prevent poopout even on the simple stimulants and correct whatever is malfunctioning (the poopout), then this will open the doors to getting effective AD responses.
My feeling for myself is understanding poop out not which AD, etc (although trying to understand which AD did what is leading up to the same conclusions), will be more key. Personally if I am up and running an an AD (like I am today on Lamictal), but still get poopout on dexedrine, then that leaves a question in my mind that something is still "broken". Frankly I have never gotton back that full wonderfull response I saw on St. John's Wort.
Sorry I refuse to use the hard to remember tachyphylaxism - where do you pick this shit up, and also you seem to know all the cool chemical names, what gives? You have a science background?
> While I'm here, I would like to offer another opportunity for discovery. The existence of a therapeutic window for nortriptyline to the exclusion of all other TCAs might provide for the identification of a specific phenomenon by which depression is both perpetuated and successfully treated.
>That is interesting. I saw your posts with Dr. Goldberg. Are you looking at some extremely sensitive feedback mechanism that requires precision dosing?
That was my point on the stuff I was looking at for TD like treatment, the medicines that intervene seem to brake a chaotic "non-linear" feed back loop. (Mostly by working on Gabaergic and NMDA antagonist paths).
> > except when co-administered with Klonopin, a GabaA agonist. Then it was smooth sailing at 40 mg/day (until Klonopin shit on me).
>
> What about Gabitril? Or perhaps Gabitril + Neurontin (if Neurontin promotes GABA synthesis as some have suggested).
>
> Neurontin = Accelerated synthesis of GABA
> Gabitril = GABA reuptake inhibition
>
> I am still dubious of the notion that Neurontin increases GABA synthesis. Can you find more information with regard to the pharmacologic properties that Neurontin displays? Although Neurontin can provide me an improvement upon the initiation of treatment, I get all whacked-out and zombie-like within a week or two. I don't know whether this phenomenon is dosage dependant or time-dependant. It occurs at dosages as low as 900mg, and does not appear to mitigate with time.
>
Neurontin doesn't doesn't do shit. Topamax helps though. Topamax increases Chloride flux through GabaA neurons much like Klonopin. I believe the addition of Topamax to my cocktail has alleviated some stimulant tolerance (at least shortly after this, pseudoephedrine and caffeine really kicked in). It also precipitated my mania. Topamax also modulates the AMPA gluatamate receptors. You might want to put it on your list of things to try. It didn't make me dumb, which is the main side effect. Perhaps the cascade of AMPA and NMDA glutamate modulation by Topamax and Lamictal is therapeutic. Just a thought.
> Oh, and another thing in re poop-out (tachyphylaxis). It almost seems as if the system simply runs out of gas - what little stores of DA that are available are quickly depleted. Here's an observation about my depressed state. It quickly worsens *significantly* upon an attempt to read more than a few paragraphs. It actually "feels" as if I run out of gas. The worsened state most often lasts for hours - or even the balance of the day. I really do think that something is going on presynaptically that prevents an adequate synthesis of dopamine. Have you ever encountered an experiment that attempts to assay tyrosine-hydroxylase activity?
>
>What do you mean by assay?
I was looking into old schools blood pressure issue, and I found that dosing of bromocriptine *reduces* noradrenaline output for some people (and reduces blood pressure) by somehow indirectly reducing MAO. Food for thought. I should look into this some more, it sound like some interesting shit.
I also was looking into this indirect sensitization pathway to the dopamine D1 receptor by alpha-1 receptors. The D1 receptor is quite involved in amphetamine sensitization.
As far as the Parnate goes, I see that it mainly increases monoamine in the synaptic clept as opposed to upregulating d2 receptors (like the reuptake inhibitors).
I dunno, frankly I think if you and I could figure out why Provigil and Dexedrine, 2 totally different medicines, yet simple, crap out in short order, and how to alleviate this, then we would really be on the right track to getting the ADs to respond robustly.
I hope all my typing is not making you depressed.
I'll look into the tyrosine hydroxylase thing some more. I think there may be something there.
John
> - Scott
poster:JohnX2
thread:100358
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020327/msgs/100769.html