Posted by Ritch on February 21, 2002, at 0:19:48
In reply to bad histamine feedback my culprit? Check this out., posted by JohnX2 on February 20, 2002, at 21:14:54
>
> Anyone hear of allergic depression/mania?
>
> I have a very interesting theory as to
> why Serzone held up as an AD for me.
>
> Ok, how does this sound:
>
> 1) 3 yrs ago I developed 1st signs of serious
> allergies in Austin, this was 6 months
> before my serious mood problem. I also developed
> inflammatory diseases.
>
> 2) I always got weird anti-depressant responses.
> On Zoloft, my emotions would
> go numb but then I would go manic and then my
> emotions would go numb. On wellbutrin I was ok
> but then I would go manic and then my emotions
> would go numb. On Lamictal, I'm OK at 150 mg,
> but when I go to 300 mg my emotions go numb.
> Also, I always get a bad pressure in my head with the
> numbing. I find a large dose of an anti-histamine
> can relieve the pressure if I get "stuck".
>
> 3) On Serzone, I was OK??? I never got "stuck".
> I got an AD response, but I was overwhelmingly
> drowsy and had to quit the AD. No mania.
>
> Ok, after reading up on how histamine regulates
> neurotransmitters, trying to figure out how
> I can feel so fantastic after trying a large
> dose of the anti-histamine chlorpheniramine.
> I just found by accident that this particular
> anti-histamine works well at times.
>
> Now here is what the histamine receptors do
> There is an interesting feedback loop, look at H3
> (I'm still looking into this more):
>
> H1: Elicit increases in phosphoinositol hydrolysis;
>
> H2: Mediated through increases in cyclic AMP; antagonists used to decrease gastric acid secretion.
>
> H3: predominantly presynaptic, feedback inhibition of histamine, norepinephrine, serotonin, acetylcholine release. Possibly related to decreased intracellular calcium.
>
> What is interesting is that there is a link between
> serotonin and histamine production that I am still trying
> to understand.
>
> So what if that H3 receptor got stuck ? that could
> explain that bizzarro world I get into where my emotions
> go numb and I get bad pressure in my head and a whopper
> anti-histamine makes it go away.
>
> Klonopin and Topamax I have found ease the myofacial pain,
> perhaps they (GabaA) regulate the histamine feedback somehow
> too.
>
> Why is Serzone interesting? It is interesting
> because one of its metabolites is a direct serotonin agonist.
> It is called mCPP. Does this mean that Serzone can "break"
> a messy malfunctioning feedback loop where histamine is
> over or underproduced due to the feedback inhibition?
>
> If this is true it has serious ramifications for me.
> It means I can use Serzone as an adjunct to get my
> medicines to work. The mCPP metabolite would not be hurt
> by the feedback and maybe this creates some kind of control
> into the loop? Does this theory sound nuts?.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Anyways I should be thoroughly checked for
> allergies. Austin is called the allergy capitol
> of the world.
>
> -JohnJohn, I believe that the environment-full of allergens and pollen and negative/positive ions, increased/decreased sunlight/temperature/humidity, etc. have a definite (e)affect on people (not just biplolars).
I would just go by the "what works" rule. If chlorpheniramine maleate does the trick-then take it. I get dystonia-akathisia probs with standard SSRI's. I notice that if I take 12.5mg of Benadyl twice daily I sleep better and have reduced probs with that. I think you are probably onto something, but I don't think I can elucidate any more light than you already have shed.
As far as "receptor specific" meds go-I also have been intrigued with the idea of a selective 5-HT3 antagonist. I have all of these horrible IBS symptoms that are aggravated immensely by SSRI's. I was wanting to see if anyone had been given SSRI and been given Ondansetron (selective 5-HT3 antagonist) to reduce some of the sfx of the SSRI. I know that the Ondansentron is used primarily for chemotherapy induced nausea/vomiting. I was given that post-op for the same thing (thyroid surgery), and it worked great. More ideas..
Mitch
Mitch
poster:Ritch
thread:94861
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020215/msgs/94883.html