Posted by Lorraine on July 12, 2001, at 11:49:25
In reply to Re: I'll hold your hand if you'll hold mine » Lorraine, posted by Elizabeth on July 11, 2001, at 16:08:04
> > My hunch is the sleeping issue with me (which is a very recent thing) is due to being overstimulated by my meds and the propranolol cuts through that like a hot knife thru butter < vbg >
>
> Lucky that you discovered it, then.Luck. I also found out that a supplement called stablium stopped me from "skin picking". You know if you try enough things something will work, but usually not for the reason you are taking it < vbg >
[re: Desipramine might be too activating.] I haven't generally been too activated by my meds--usually it's been the other way around. Right now all of the drugs that I am on are activating. The problem I have had is the gas pedal/brake pedal dilemma. When I take enough puppy upper to be awake and alert and active, I hyperventilate. When I take enough doggy downer to control the hyperventilation, I am too sedated. So it's a three legged potatoe sack race I'm running. My hunch is that imipramine is going to be too sedating. I think what I found when I was just taking dexedrine and neurontin was that the hyperventilation was under control, but I didn't have mood support. Because I won't have a washout period to try Desipramine and because I will be weaning off of a more activating drug (Selegiline), I have little to lose by trying it. If it doesn't work out, then I'll have one more drug to cross off my list in my little experiment. Say--minor research on Desipramine suggests it increases the release of HGH.
: Laakmann G, Schumacher G, Benkert O.
Stimulation of growth hormone secretion by desimipramin and chlorimipramin in man.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1977 May;44(5):1010-3.
PMID: 870511 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Also, stumbled on this article (that I can't access--no password):
The desipramine cortisol test--a selective noradrenergic challenge (relationship to other cortisol tests in depressives and normals).
This would probably be a good read, huh?
This one too, maybe:
: Barry S, Dinan TG. Related Articles
Neuroendocrine challenge tests in depression: a study of growth hormone, TRH and cortisol release.
J Affect Disord. 1990 Apr;18(4):229-34.
PMID: 2140374 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Thought you might be interested in what they have to say about its effect on sleep patterns:Desipramine increases the percentage of Stage 4 sleep (deep sleep) and decreases the percentage of REM sleep. A partial recovery of REM sleep is seen after 3 to 5 weeks of drug administration. However, in spite of this recovery, a REM rebound occurs following rapid drug withdrawal, which is experienced as an increase in dreaming. The significance of these effects on the sleep cycle remains to be clarified. "
This latter is from:
http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-n03.html#Head_10
> > > My concern is that a TCA would not be an effective drug for you.You may be right. I'm really torn on this.
> > > I think that it's been pretty well-established that the original monoamine hypothesis of depression was a vast oversimplification.
I read an article recently, that you might enjoy: "Serotonergic and Noradrenergic Reuptake Inhibitors: Prediction of clinical effects From In Vitro Potencies by Alan Frazer, Ph.D. J Clin Psychiatry 2001; 62 (supp 12). I found it free on line, but I don't know where anymore.
> > >Well, it's not entirely a hunch: the "hibernation," lethargy, social withdrawal, and anxiety/panic symptoms, and the lack of disturbances in eating or sleeping, suggest to me that TCAs might not be the best meds for you. OTOH, there are always surprises. I just think it'd be better to try a TCA only if MAOIs fail. FWIW, the traditional antidepressant MAOIs -- Nardil, Parnate, and Marplan -- worked pretty well for me, but selegiline sucked when I tried it.
elizabeth: I appreciate the thought you put into this. I will need to reconsider what to do here.
> > The reason I suspect that there may be a P450 issue is because very low doses of meds affect me strongly and I am hypersensitive to side effects.
>
> It's a possibility, but side effect sensitivity is very common among people with anxiety disorders.Yeah, but I've had side effect sensitivity for 5 years and the anxiety is just a recent problem (since November). But then again, I am VERY aware of physical changes in my body.
[re overstimulation on Selegiline]
> > > Two of its metabolites (as I'm sure you know) are l-amphetamine and l-methamphetamine. I experienced jitters, agitation, and worsened insomnia and appetite on it.
> >
> > Yes, but then dexidrine didn't have this effect; nor is adderral having this effect.
>
> Dexedrine is d-amphetamine -- fewer peripheral side effects. Adderall is a weird combination of isomers of amphetamine salts, but it seems (for whatever reason) to cause less "jittery"-type side effects than plain d,l-amphetamine.Doesn't all this suggest that my response to Desipramine may be different than my response to Selegiline?
elizabeth: I hope the Desipramine works for you. Do keep me updated. It's nice to know that I am not that only playing medication roulette. Shelli also seems to be on this path. Anyway, i appreciate your thoughts and just knowing that someone else out there is struggling with their meds helps keep me sane.
Lorraine
poster:Lorraine
thread:67742
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010708/msgs/69843.html