Posted by Elizabeth on June 8, 2001, at 15:09:50
In reply to Re: trazodone, REM sleep, etc., posted by Thrud on June 6, 2001, at 23:43:17
> > Maybe. My "anxiety dreams" tend to have a fight-or-flight thing going on. How about your vivid dreams? What kind of emotions do you find associated with them?
>
> Before my first episode of depression my dreams almost always had the same format. The "fight or flight" sequence followed by a happy ending, sort of like making it to the "promised land". After depression and antidepressants, the happy endings stopped and left only the anxiety ridden parts. They also became generally more bizarre. It is not an exaggeration to say I have not had a pleasant dream in over ten years.The anxiety dreams that I recall don't tend to have a resolution or ending of any sort, really. This may simply be because the dreams I recall are the ones where I wake up before the dream ends, though. I used to have a recurring dream (with superficial variations) about the end of the world, and I would always wake up right when the world ended. Although they were scary (my first memory of having this dream was when I was 4 years old or so), the end-of-the-world dreams did have a sort of "promised land" quality, too. (Sick, eh?)
Dream bizarreness is associated with REMs, and sometimes people have "dream" experiences that are very mundane and turn out to occur in other stages of sleep. I think that SSRI-induced increased density of REMs during REM sleep is the cause of bizarre dreams for a lot of people.
> > Which ADs caused sex problems for you that you didn't expect?
>
> Serzone, Wellbutrin, Mianserin, Remeron, SAM-E, NADH, phosphatidylserine, Gingko, St Johns Wort, L-Tyrosine...probably more I can't remember.The most surprising of those are Wellbutrin and tyrosine. Was the quality of the dysfunction different with different drugs or types of drugs?
> I've grown very tired of seeing studies where a given drug has sexual dysfunction rates at placebo, then when I try it I cop that problem.
You're one of those data points that get thrown away and chalked up to experimental error because they would ruin the results of the experiment. :-}
> I'm still considering ECT to escape it, but it has a whole set of new problems of its own.
So I hear. But I've never gotten what I considered a completely reliable account of serious problems from ECT. So, while I'm somewhat afraid of it, I don't rule it out as a possibility. A definite disadvantage of ECT is that it doesn't work for very long. I don't know if maintenance ECT is consistent with a high level of functioning (if nothing else, it's usually hard to do stuff on the day you have a treatment).
> Trazodone and Buspar are about my last realistic choices and given my past record I am not hopeful.
They're worth trying. See if you can get a sample of one or both so you don't have to go through the hassle of filling a prescription for something you might only be trying once. (I don't know if you could get a sample of trazodone, although I did once get samples of Deseryl Dividose.)
> No wonder I like to compensate for that loss by gaining in beer. Ah, sweet amber bliss!.
:-) I never got it about alcohol. It just makes me tired, but it obviously has a lot of appeal for many people.
> I'll check out the literature on Parnate. If shows placebo levels of sexual dysfunction then I will seriously consider it.
Good plan. I'm just going on what I've heard from other people. The only drug that ever caused that kind of problem for me was Marplan, believe it or not. Also, I know that some people get sexual problems from Parnate, but it's still worth trying.
Some other notably absent drugs:
- amphetamine and other psychostimulants (not Provigil, as far as I know): less of a pain to try than Parnate, because you can take them with other antidepressants
- bethanechol: particularly with the noradrenergic or anticholinergic drugs that cause sexual problems (but also depending on the nature of the problems)
- tricyclics: which ones would be most likely to help would depend on the type of sexual side effects you get from different types of drugsAs you can see, the type of sexual dysfunction is important in figuring out what will work. Sexual dysfunctions can include loss of or reduction in libido, desire, or drive; impotence or inability to become aroused physically; pain or discomfort associated with sex (of various sorts: for example, in women this can be due to excessive tightness or failure to lubricate; in both sexes it can be a feeling of having to urinate instead of becoming aroused); and probably some other things I can't think of right now.
> Thanks for your help.
I'm afraid it was more bad news than help, but you're welcome.
> > < g >
>
> Sorry, but what does this symbol mean?"grin." Similar to ":-)"
-elizabeth
poster:Elizabeth
thread:65315
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010605/msgs/65799.html