Posted by Adam on June 1, 2000, at 1:54:31
In reply to Get off it. Really! » Adam, posted by boBb on June 1, 2000, at 0:04:45
Goodness!
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> One: My brief polemic about which you are now ranting and raving was hardly “spewing hateful filth.” It was very close to what is taught on Sunday morning, an environment where I was forced to spend one of every seven days until I was old enough to know better. If thine eye offend the, pluck it out. It was said in reference to a direct statement to myself, after I had twice asked the person to not concern themself with my personal way of managing my feelings.I never said it was. Others have spewed hateful filth here, though, and the posts were removed. I guess the fact that in
the same post I said I wasn't really offended by things you had said would indicate I wasn't accusing you of such transgressions.
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> Two: no, I never came close to suggesting that you should your ass kicked for anybody. In fact, it was our resident pharmacist who most recently boasted of fighting for sport in martial arts tournaments. What’s with your language anyway. (”Anyway, you seem to be saying that the best way to be your friend is to go get my ass kicked for the cause”) I said, quite plainly, though you choose to twist beyond reason whatever I tried very sincerely, persistently and honestly to say, that one person who offered to listen to me would help me by listening to people who need it far more; that fixing me is not a worthy cause - I’m fine with me, but there is plenty suffering around that does really need attention. Is that too hard to understand? Christ!"People die in agony for
just cause - for causes you may not care about, but from which you likely benefit. I find satisfaction sharing their suffering,
and suffering for these “causes” is the best way you could lend me comfort."If this statement doesn't at least imply that one ought to get a can of whoop-ass opened up on
them to relate, I'm not sure what it does, then. All this talk of death and agony and war and
fighting and causes and so on sound like the musings of a self-styled Job, that's all. If all
you meant was to understand this torturous journey we must listen to people who have suffered,
why not just say so? And what's wrong with my language, anyway? Like you never used the F
word or whatever. Please.
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> Three: I never said anything I post here is going to threaten my life. To return to the direct accusations for which I was warned, you, Adam, are demonstrating the worst of insensitive behaviors often demonstrated by mental health workers by twisting my genuine and well considered explanations, you wrote: “You claim to divulge personal information would threaten your life.” Please search my posts and document your allegation. I said, rather obtusely, that to post under my real name might damage my bi-line and to make direct admissions of illegal drug use on the internet could serve as basis for a search warrant. To thicken the plot, if when such a hypothetical search warrant were served, I had as a guest in my house a source in a news story who happend to be in possession of an illegal aminergine, I could be criminally liable. When challenged about how I could possibly know what goes into an affidavit for a warrant, I explained that, as a journalist, I read such documents, and know the basis for many warrants. That was in a discussion in which we were comparing illegal aminergines to legal aminergines.
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Here's what you wrote:"I am certain ECHELON, the international electronic intelligence gathering contractor, can identify me. I am not famous, I just
have a certain edge that shows wherever I flash it. If I told you places, you might shudder with recognition. I don't identify
myself here mostly so I won't have to shut up. Otherwise I would be confronted in my daily life by my stances here and
elsewhere. Somebody likely knows. This isn't paranoia, it is low-intensity warfare. If it comes down to it, the daily normal job
goes and this fight over the franchise to medicine and over the human right to have food and safe shelter will always be my
main mission in life. I will give my life in a heartbeat to prosecute that war."I guess all this talk of "low-intensity warfare" and giving your life, alongside this weird ECHELON thing got
me thinking you were afraid the 'Net police were going to hunt you down and do something nasty to you. If you
don't want such misunderstandings to happen in the future, you might want to tone down the language in your
initial posts, to match the mitigated refutations.
> Four: you wrote that: “We are taking the rather prodigious leap of faith that you are some kind of vigilante warrior” I am exactly what I am. Well, yes, in my state and many others, there are people using the phrase “leaderless resistance.” But I encountered the style many years ago, when Arlo Guthrie, son of the renowned activist/folk singer Woodie Guthrie was touring, yes, in the mid-west. He said in the early 1980’s that mass movements had become so misdirected and watered down, that people need to learn to act on their own. Well, golly jee. But isn’t learning to act on our own - to be self directed, the goal of psychotherapy, and the essential spice of democracy?Umm, sure. Why does the fact that Arlo Guthrie said some things make you believable?
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> Five: I have repeatedly acknowledged that some people know who I am, for what that is worth. I am basically interested in protecting myself from the likes of you, Adam, who apparently are unable or unwilling to accurately represent the substance of what I offer you when you reply. I would have a hard time hiring you in my newsroom. I would have very a hard time trusting you with my identity. Who knows where you might choose to slander me.Why on Earth would I bother to slander you? And like I have said above, I don't think it's an enormous stretch to interpret some
of your posts the way I have. It's the bombastics that are causing the problem, I think. Everything is expressed with such
grandiloquence, I can't resist images of Charlton Heston parting the waters.
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> Five: you asked "How big of a leap is it to suppose some doctors don't see eye to eye, or that their identities should be any of our business?" Well, I am concerned that one particular psychiatric doctor might use his position of power at a university funded by an unlawful oil monopoly to discourage patients from trusting their family physician when that physician attempts to exercise a lawful obligation to warn patients about contraindications of a procedure. If you really need to fight about it, perhaps I should consider recommending him to his state medical arts licensing board for an ethical review. Then he will be in a forum where someone else gets to make up the rules.
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I'm sorry, but this is almost comical. I think many p-docs feel that the specialty of psychopharmacology
might be best left to psychopharmacologists, just like they're not going to go around claiming to be
experts in nephrology or something. As for where the U of Chicago gets its money, I can't see why that
is necessarily a reflection of the character of someone who works there. Hell, I live in a country stolen
from Native Americans and built with the toil of slaves. I am the direct beneficiary of racism and genocide.
Who is free from guilt by association? At some point you have to just live and do your job and try to be
a good person. Anyway, I'm sure U of C gets all kinds of "legitimate" funds too. What should we focus on?>
> Apparently, those who advocate meds and the medical model enjoy the benefit of a referee here, and the rest of us can expect to be mugged. You, Adam, seem to represent a group of well educated individuals who are unable to manage there personal aggression, and are unable to back off once you smell blood in the water. Get out your credit card, type in the numbers and rule this site. I hope that brings you some satisfaction.
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Smell blood? What? Anyway, I acknowlege medicine because it finally managed to help me after about ten years
of lackluster results, and some possible exacerbations of my condition. I'm not a blind fanatic, and I have my
share of questions and concerns. I just feel that there are good doctors and not-so-good ones, and that's about
all there is to it. I have been my own advocate in all the times where medicine has helped me. I could hardly
be called an advocate of all medicine. And who said anything about ruling the site? No one is silencing you
as it is, they're just refuting you. The problems registration hopes to address are, I am convinced, not limited
to or even primarily about your behavior. There have been other problems. I think your use of many pseudonyms
just highlights the concern about unrestricted use of names, where confusion and misappropriation of others'
identities would cause confusion and harm. This doesn't seem all that sinister, that's all.> The main problem with jumping to another level of restriction now is not that it would insult me. Who the H**l am I, anyway? It is that it demeans the site by diverting the discussion toward one of how things are said rather than what is being said.
I'm just not following this. There's virtually no restriction now, and no reason to believe things would change in
any radical way. Why not wait and see, or consider some of the benefits of registration? Why be so negative about
it until you see whether or not there really is a problem? I like the idea that certain foul behaviour could be
dealt with (I'm talking the truly caustic stuff, stuff meant only to hurt, not intelligent (or unintelligent) debate
over something.)
poster:Adam
thread:34648
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000526/msgs/35465.html