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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 44 to 68 of 148. Go back in thread:
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to perhaps it's your combativeness? (nm), posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:47:21
Do you like that?
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: perhaps it's your combativeness?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:49:59
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to or hypersexuality!! (nm), posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:51:10
Well, you were the one who said I might be Tom Cruise (not that all women fancy him, of course)...
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:46:04
It is a combination of the combativeness and denial of his symptoms. Nez so desperately wants to be "Normal" he can't stop telling the world how "Normal" he is. This is a threat to his world in that he is afraid of his "true" nature.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:54:05
You are interesting you know, but why the interest really in the meds?
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:54:26
Is that the best you can do? Where are all of these posts of me proclaiming "I'm normal"?
Go back and check, though I know it's difficult for somebody like you who is delusional. On the contrary, you devoted a whole post to stating that you absolutely required medication.N
> It is a combination of the combativeness and denial of his symptoms. Nez so desperately wants to be "Normal" he can't stop telling the world how "Normal" he is. This is a threat to his world in that he is afraid of his "true" nature.
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:58:41
Just jerkin yer chain Nez. I am done! See ya around. Good luck stayin "Normal"
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:55:26
> You are interesting you know, but why the interest really in the meds?
Thanks. I think these meds are much more powerful than most people realize. And ultimately detrimental to long-term health, mental and otheriwse.
And since I've been adversely affected by them (long-term loss of sex drive), I feel an ethical responsibility to point out the potential dangers of these drugs to others.N
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 22:23:34
OK, as long as you're being altruistic, but you know people can get terribly offended about this right? It's not always fun to feel like you have to take a psychotropic med.
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 22:28:45
> OK, as long as you're being altruistic, but you know people can get terribly offended about this right? It's not always fun to feel like you have to take a psychotropic med.
I understand that it's not fun. I'm just saying that it's not always necessary to take these drugs, and quite often they can make things worse long-term. The drug companies and the psychiatric profession have an obvious conflict of interest in helping people solve their problems. They *want* people on drugs long-term. But this, IMO, is a symptom of the much larger problem of the way sociey is today, which is ultra-competitive, unsympathetic, uncaring, selfish, and too focused on individual "success" (whatever that means) than feeling happy, and good about yourself.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 22:45:08
Well I must agree with you there. I do believe that we are way too focused on terribly unrealistic standards for ourselves. We've come to expect perhaps more instant gratifications. Things seem disposable. We find less fulfillment in our passions in favor of a rat race that never seems to end. And then sometimes we come up empty or burn out, and blame ourselves. I don't know how to fix that...
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to medicating a sick society, posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 23:05:45
It would take some major changes to fix it. Difficult, but hopefully not impossible.
At some point we will have to change the fabric of society otherwise the human species will not survive.
Destructive power is growing exponentially, but altruism appears to be decreasing. Not good trends. I could write more, but perhaps another time or a different thread? I'm going to bed. Good night.N
As technology > Well I must agree with you there. I do believe that we are way too focused on terribly unrealistic standards for ourselves. We've come to expect perhaps more instant gratifications. Things seem disposable. We find less fulfillment in our passions in favor of a rat race that never seems to end. And then sometimes we come up empty or burn out, and blame ourselves. I don't know how to fix that...
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 23:12:43
Posted by willyee on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 23:12:43
> It would take some major changes to fix it. Difficult, but hopefully not impossible.
> At some point we will have to change the fabric of society otherwise the human species will not survive.
> Destructive power is growing exponentially, but altruism appears to be decreasing. Not good trends. I could write more, but perhaps another time or a different thread? I'm going to bed. Good night.
>
> N
>
> As technology > Well I must agree with you there. I do believe that we are way too focused on terribly unrealistic standards for ourselves. We've come to expect perhaps more instant gratifications. Things seem disposable. We find less fulfillment in our passions in favor of a rat race that never seems to end. And then sometimes we come up empty or burn out, and blame ourselves. I don't know how to fix that...
>
>I actualy agreed with some of toms comments.However tom lost his cool,and became very close to crossing the line,his co-correspondent handled it nicly.I agree with tom as to the fact chemical imbalance as a term is thrown around too easly.
Anyone should be able to see we need more scieance behind the prescribing of these medications.
What i dont agree with is tom implying depression can not be a bio chemical disorder.
Okay so lets walk this down....every part of you body can fall ill to a disease or disorder,from your ankles retaining water and swelling and using a water pill which DOES help my father,right up to diabetes where of course medication saves lives.
With this said,WHY,WHY,WHY is it hard for people to believe the brain,the most important body part,that relys on some many functions to work properly cant fall ill to a disorder.So seizures can be real,and some type of malfunction in the brain,but depression,well no that cant be.
Those comments such as snap out of it,or the one i love most,excersie and diet,i say this cause i personaly have done so since 16 hard core,and its done nodda nodda tom cruise.
I absolutly believe the people here,includin myself have fallen victim to some form of disorder,a pyhsical one,where something is not functioning up to par in the brain.
I believe its prob very complex,and what we have data and studies on our prob just the end results of the major problem,i.e low serotion levels and such.I am sure the problems is much deeper.So i agree the term chemical imbalance is just too vague.
I also feel since these medications make so much money,i dont see any incentive for the pahrm companys to do real research,why,they are not looking to spend money,but make,so they tweak an exisiting med here,there,give it a cute name with maybe a lime green neon butterfuly mascott,and put it out.
I especialy disagree with tom as to how he indirectly implied people are wrong for using these meds.These people do the SENSABLE THING,they go to their docters,they trust their docters to give them the best care,its the industry and the docs who prescribe these medications sometimes too often.I dont see how in any way its a patients fault,its a responsable thing to go to the doc when ur sick.Tom is entitled to his opinion,but yess he sure did look wired,restless,irratable,and totaly unproffesional in that interview,his counterpart was calm and collective,and brushed off toms rude and confrontaional outbursts,cheers to him.
The worst thing is for a person who does not have a clinical emotional disorder to speak adementaly on it,its very annoying.
Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 23:12:43
Got here late driving all day to Charlotte. But it seems like N is getting by, by the skin of his teeth. flmm there was one post where he was uncivil in my opinion only to you but you took it in stride. We seem to be able to stand up for what we believe is right or wrong without complaining to Dr. Bob. At the end of the discussion a lot of good points were expressed. It's as if this is a "should be continued"......Fondly, Phllippa
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2005, at 2:17:58
In reply to perhaps it's your combativeness? (nm), posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:47:21
> Psychiatry ... is an absolute disgrace. It is morally bankrupt, and all about power, control, and money.
>
> Nezirov> Dream on Dr. Nezerov, you need medication too!
>
> flmm> perhaps it's your combativeness?
>
> sleepygirlPlease don't exaggerate or overgeneralize or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 3:09:25
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2005, at 23:38:02
I agree with most of what you say. There is a limit, IMO, as to where to draw the line.
Certain persons are severely depressed. To me, it seems extrordinarly juvinile, for Tom Cruse to approach the topic in such a way. He is a whistle blower. Do you know how extrordinarily easy it is to be a whistle blower? Depression invloves a lot of guilt, do these patients really need more guilt? Bottom line, people need tangable solns.
I would agree that many people take these drugs without knowing what they can fully do, they are certainly not risk free. There are others, who fully know what they can and cannot do, and yet still choose to take them.You may have mentally lumped me in with a whole bunch of naive drug users but I pose a challenge for you.
Tell me one alternative, non drug approach to treating depression that I have not yet tried.
I dare you !!Linkadge
Posted by Nickengland on July 2, 2005, at 5:21:55
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society-Nevrov, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 3:09:25
Yes Linkadge!...I like your question!
>Tell me one alternative, non drug approach to treating depression that I have not yet tried.
I dare you !!I asked Nezirov this same thing in a similar way..
Like I said before, you can quite easily, Nezirov, say that all these medications are a disgrace and psychiatry is terrible etc etc Bear in mind though that as much as your intentions maybe good for informaing people of this....they may also be offending people in way because other people on here reply on such medications..
I personally think you most probably didn't really need to even be prescribed an anti-depressant in the first place, would you agree?...In a nutshell your views are based on people who have very mild symtoms then and could be helped by talk therapy perhaps ~ you speak for these people with mild symtoms, who go to a doctor presenting these mild symtoms but get medication when it is not needed.
In the mean time understand that most people on this board, I believe do not have mild symtoms like yourself.
Many of these people cannot simply say "oh I'm not going to take my meds because I get sexual side effects" because if they don't take their meds they get sucide thoughts and extream side effects from there illness which far out-weigh the side effects from the medications.
You answered this question eariler with a very bold statement indeed.
---------------------
> Invent a better drug youself, in your basement.
Huh? Actually I have the scientific exertise to do that
--------------------
What is your scientific background?
Like I said before "anti psychiatry" people think they have all the ansers becasue they can say how bad medications are and so on.
Now you have expressed many many times your view on this.
Lets you if you can now do the same with so many writings on how you personally think you can treat:
Schizophrenia - Paranoid, delusional, etc.
Bipolar disorder - Mania Symtoms, Mixed states & Bipolar depression.
Severe depression
Severe depression with anxiety
Servere anxiety
ADHD
I look forward to the many positive repsonses which could possibly equal the many negative ones you have to say about psychiatry...possibly without a politicians answer - by which I mean direct sloutions to the illness presented before us today.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 7:41:08
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 19:03:12
> As I've said before, some people do require these medications.
Under what circumstances would these people require medications?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 7:55:31
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by willyee on July 1, 2005, at 23:35:03
Amidst his making movies, I wonder how Tom Cruise managed to afford and devote the time and energy necessary to "know the whole history of psychiatry" as he so confidently states. I'm sure he has thoroughly evaluated the PET scans and MRIs used by H. Manji to determine that the structual anomolies found in the brains of bipolar and schizophrenic patients are a hoax, and has prepared himself for the technical expertise to evaluate both the images and the methods used to produce them.
lol
That is only ONE study. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Tom Cruise knows the whole history of psychiatry.
LOL
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 8:00:05
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society-Nevrov, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 3:09:25
> Tell me one alternative, non drug approach to treating depression that I have not yet tried.
> I dare you !!
Scientological detoxification.Well, you asked.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 8:03:38
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 7:55:31
Let us not lose sight of the true focus here: the health of the individual.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 8:13:45
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by Phillipa on July 1, 2005, at 23:38:02
> At the end of the discussion a lot of good points were expressed. It's as if this is a "should be continued"
As long as there are people in the world who would get in the way of the individual seeking his health using the tools that are available to mankind, it is the discussion of the denial of these tools that should always be continued.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2005, at 8:32:46
In reply to Re: medicating a sick society, posted by willyee on July 1, 2005, at 23:35:03
Hi.
> I actualy agreed with some of toms comments.
I'm curious as to which ones you agree with.
> I agree with tom as to the fact chemical imbalance as a term is thrown around too easly.
But still believed too seldom.
> Anyone should be able to see we need more scieance behind the prescribing of these medications.
Everyone does, especially the neuroscientists who have devoted their entire careers to answering the questions as to how these medications work. However, it makes sense to use these drugs prior to their being completely understood. Homo Erectus used fire without having a clue as to how it worked (and continues to work). Actually, this has been true of the entirety of human history. There are still things about the physics of the universe that we cannot account for, including the subatomic forces involved in the production of fire. Perhaps we should stop using it.
- Scott
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 12:35:35
In reply to Re: please be civil » Nezirov » flmm » sleepygirl, posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 2005, at 2:17:58
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