Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1109688

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Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week sigismund

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:12:47

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by sigismund on April 22, 2020, at 22:08:49

>They're just not good drugs. An AD should feel like >half a line of coke all day'

Funny. But on a serious note, I would say that Ritalin has put me into remission. Without it (even with high dose ADs) I just feel like a failure. I give up so easily. I experience a knot in my shoelace and I give up on going out to a movie.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:19:54

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 1:28:08

>I think that getting high is just not a solution. >You just need to take a look at the people begging >for money at trainstations. Of course you >temporarily feel better. That is what illegal drugs >do.

Maybe. Maybe not. How many doctors would have said that depressives were 'just getting high' on ketamine and then dismissed their reports?

But, would cocaine's effect still only be temporary if you took it in lower doses, in a controlled release fashion?

Some studies suggest that what really makes cocaine abusable is the rate at which it occupies the dopamine transporter. I.e. snorting it gives a massive, sudden inhibition of DAT resulting in a huge surge of dopamine.

The only difference between recreational cocaine and theaputic Ritalin, is perhaps dose. The same thing goes for recreational meth and therapeutic Dexedrine.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:22:25

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 23, 2020, at 3:08:53

>Methylphenidate intravenously also produce a rush, >illegal or not.

Exactly. That's why I wonder if a low dose long acting version of cocaine actually have therapeutic effect in depression? This is just a thought experiment, rather than a suggestion or recommendation to anybody.

Linakdge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:24:33

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 6:20:14

>It looks to me like many people here are at high >risk to abuse them one day because of their >attitude.

In terms of health harms to society, the abuse of alcohol is ranked far more detrimental to health than cocaine. Yet, it's perfectly legal.

Benzodiazapines can also be abused. For the record, I have never abused benzos, nor have I had difficulty getting off them.

Linkadge


 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:50:31

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 6:58:59

There are tons of people who get inadequate relief from many psychiatric drugs. You go to the doctor, and they hand you something that boosts your serotonin. If it doesn't work, you're f*ck*d and they blame you.

I mean, addiction aside, cocaine XR would probably rock for low mood, low energy, poor concentration, social phobia, you name it.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 18:02:16

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 8:45:58

>This business of trying meds in general and especially addictive"meds" is risky.

Everything is a risk. Severe unremitting depression is a serious risk. I've probably tried more meds than most people here:

serzone, trazodone, mirtazapine, Prozac, Zoloft, paxil, celexa, escitalopram, luvox, venlafaxine, amitriptyline, nortriptyline, imipramine, doxepin, surmontil, clomipramine, parnate, lithium, depakote, carbamazepine, risperdone, olanzapine, Seroquel, thioridazine, perphenazine, lorazepam, valium, clonazepam, oxepam, bromazepam, fluorazepam, Ritalin, Dexedrine, straterra, atenolol, propranolol....probably a bunch I can't remember too.

Whatever the f*ck is wrong with me, the vast majority of these meds to diddly squat.

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic

Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 18:09:18

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 23, 2020, at 9:26:19

>Having grandiose delusions can also feel nice. It >does wonders for positive thinking. But, of course, >paranoid delusions can be hell.

Weed for me helps in this regard. Being slightly detached from reality (for me) is very helpful during depressive episodes. The only thing I can compare it to is the highly anticholinergic TCAs. It's jut trying to shut my brain the f*ck down. The hyperreflection on my own stupid problems and my inability to do anything about them is brutal. When I use weed I can forget about everything in a dose dependent manner.

Some people have had bad 'breaks' using marijuanna. I have had 'breaks' from reality but I'm like "thank God I get a break from my horrible meaningless life".

Linkadge

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week linkadge

Posted by sigismund on April 23, 2020, at 19:54:24

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week sigismund, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:12:47

> I give up so easily. I experience a knot in my shoelace and I give up on going out to a movie.


EXACTLY

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by sigismund on April 23, 2020, at 19:56:04

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:19:54

Chewing coca is slow release. Three times a day. Some people might not like the mouth full of chaff thingo.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by sigismund on April 23, 2020, at 19:57:08

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 18:09:18

>Being slightly detached from reality (for me) is very helpful during depressive episodes.

Slightly, yes, that is how it is for me.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by sigismund on April 23, 2020, at 19:59:55

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:50:31

>I mean, addiction aside, cocaine XR would probably rock for low mood, low energy, poor concentration, social phobia, you name it.

Preparedeness to engage, yes, good for that.

For the record I don't like coke at all, but chewing coca is not like being high, not in any meaningful sense.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week linkadge

Posted by beckett2 on April 23, 2020, at 20:51:53

In reply to Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by linkadge on April 21, 2020, at 16:46:40

> Kidding
>
> Seriously though, would this be significantly different from venlafaxine XR + Ritalin XR?
>
> Linkadge

Clickbait

:)

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 21:38:33

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:24:33

I guess many people here are effected more severely than I am right now. There was a time where I was in a really bad suicidal state. And I got out of it without controlled substances. But that doesn't mean that everyone will. I just wonder if something like Ritalin can really be a good thing when looking at the whole rest of your life. I don't know.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 22:16:27

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 21:38:33

I think that the major difference is that I live in a country where health insurance and the state have got my back. I can get help. And I did. Not just medical help, but also social. And not doing the med merry go round anymore has stabilized me, too. There is still some way to go, but I am content enough with how things are now. It is liveable.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by rjlockhart37 on April 23, 2020, at 22:22:39

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 8:45:58

cocaine = rush, euphoria, intense, feeling alive, common in upper rooms of nightclubs, your high no antidepressant effect

crack = 10x harder, only lasts a few mintues, crack heads experience the most intense dopamine, crack heads.

methyphendiate/dexmethypheidate = strong at high doses, but its not the same high as cocaine. Will produce a methphendiate high, but not a cocaine high. Plus C is only 30min, you have to keep sniffing and plus constant intake builds up even after the euphoria effects left, the residue left increased can cause cardic problems and overdose, even with non active cocaine content metabolite

methamphetammine - (street) rush euphoria that lasts up to 12 hours, it makes you paranoid, and your face gets methanized, weight loss in face, a meth face. Your also doing more repetative things, over again. Talking very fast, obession with something not intresting while sober, the 5 hour methamphtamine house cleaner, it makes you do reptetive things. Psychostimulant. Desoxyn - heard diffrent stories, that is not like traditional stimulants, and work on serogenic, it all depends on the dose. Maximum i've heard is 100mg

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 2:19:14

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week sigismund, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:12:47

> >They're just not good drugs. An AD should feel like >half a line of coke all day'
>
> Funny. But on a serious note, I would say that Ritalin has put me into remission.
>

Full remission? That is impressive!

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:07:04

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:19:54

> >I think that getting high is just not a solution. >You just need to take a look at the people begging >for money at trainstations. Of course you >temporarily feel better. That is what illegal drugs >do.
>
> Maybe. Maybe not. How many doctors would have said that depressives were 'just getting high' on ketamine and then dismissed their reports?
>
> But, would cocaine's effect still only be temporary if you took it in lower doses, in a controlled release fashion?
>

Temporary, yes, just like other drugs. However, in an XR formulation, of course the duration of action would be much longer. Even without XR, the duration of an oral dose can be longer than an hour.

> Some studies suggest that what really makes cocaine abusable is the rate at which it occupies the dopamine transporter. I.e. snorting it gives a massive, sudden inhibition of DAT resulting in a huge surge of dopamine.
>

Yes. Nora Volkow suggested the rapid rise of dopamine (DA) with IV cocaine and methylphenidate mimics "phasic" DA firing rather than increased "tonic" concentration (of synaptic DA). "Phasic" is the kind of DAergic rise that takes place in "natural" dopamine release in response to reward (or reward-seeking). "Tonic" is the "background" concentration of DA.

Increased tonic DA still feels good, but there is none of the "rush" produced by phasic DA rise.

> The only difference between recreational cocaine and theaputic Ritalin, is perhaps dose. The same thing goes for recreational meth and therapeutic Dexedrine.
>

Roughly, yes, unless you meant Desoxyn. From what I understand, meth-amphetamine has some differences from "regular" amphetamine in terms of its relative potencies in releasing the different monoamines. IIRC serotonin and dopamine are relatively higher with meth. Meth also has a much longer half-life.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:16:31

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:22:25

> >Methylphenidate intravenously also produce a rush, >illegal or not.
>
> Exactly. That's why I wonder if a low dose long acting version of cocaine actually have therapeutic effect in depression? This is just a thought experiment, rather than a suggestion or recommendation to anybody.
>
> Linakdge
>
>

Freud used cocaine as an antidepressant, so yes, it works!

Incidentally, Freud reported a lack of nootropic effects, whereas he suggested caffeine did have such effects. In my experience, cocaine-like stimulants do have substantial nootropic effects, whereas caffeine alone has none (but that's just me). The combination of both is superior to either alone.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by Lamdage22 on April 24, 2020, at 3:19:42

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:16:31

If i ever get bored of my mental health, I will hit you guys up.

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:21:55

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 17:24:33

> >It looks to me like many people here are at high >risk to abuse them one day because of their >attitude.
>
> In terms of health harms to society, the abuse of alcohol is ranked far more detrimental to health than cocaine. Yet, it's perfectly legal.
>
> Benzodiazapines can also be abused. For the record, I have never abused benzos, nor have I had difficulty getting off them.
>

Neither have I, but then again, I don't get any kind of reward from them. Even though they are useful for sleep, that sleep is kind of worthless in my experience.

As for cocaine-like stimulants, I have abused them, but I never got addicted, unless you mean I *needed* them to ward off apathy and suicidal ideation.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:28:10

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 18:02:16

> >This business of trying meds in general and especially addictive"meds" is risky.
>
> Everything is a risk. Severe unremitting depression is a serious risk. I've probably tried more meds than most people here:
>
> serzone, trazodone, mirtazapine, Prozac, Zoloft, paxil, celexa, escitalopram, luvox, venlafaxine, amitriptyline, nortriptyline, imipramine, doxepin, surmontil, clomipramine, parnate, lithium, depakote, carbamazepine, risperdone, olanzapine, Seroquel, thioridazine, perphenazine, lorazepam, valium, clonazepam, oxepam, bromazepam, fluorazepam, Ritalin, Dexedrine, straterra, atenolol, propranolol....probably a bunch I can't remember too.
>

I have tried more than most myself, but I have to say, I think you've tried even more.

You've done some heavy-duty antipsychotics. Was that for augmentation of antidepressants or did you have psychotic symptoms?

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:33:10

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week undopaminergic, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2020, at 18:09:18

> >Having grandiose delusions can also feel nice. It >does wonders for positive thinking. But, of course, >paranoid delusions can be hell.
>
> Weed for me helps in this regard. Being slightly detached from reality (for me) is very helpful during depressive episodes.
>

I agree, and I think I understand precisely what you mean. I got lasting depersonalisation from reboxetine (Edronax), and at the time, that really helped for my depression. As it is now, I want my emotions and my experience of the reality of reality back.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:41:17

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 21:38:33

> I guess many people here are effected more severely than I am right now. There was a time where I was in a really bad suicidal state. And I got out of it without controlled substances. But that doesn't mean that everyone will. I just wonder if something like Ritalin can really be a good thing when looking at the whole rest of your life. I don't know.
>

I concede that methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta) is not for *everyone*. But for me, it treated apathy and suicidal ideation, and none of my days were a complete failure as long as I took the drug. It was entirely a good thing. I can't think of anything negative about it, except perhaps the fact that the effects didn't last longer than the duration of a dose.

Taking neuroleptics is not risk-free either. I'd argue that it's better to be addicted to a drug than it is to have obesity and/or diabetes, or even worse, tardive dyskinesia.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 3:43:35

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by Lamdage22 on April 23, 2020, at 22:16:27

> I think that the major difference is that I live in a country where health insurance and the state have got my back. I can get help. And I did. Not just medical help, but also social. And not doing the med merry go round anymore has stabilized me, too. There is still some way to go, but I am content enough with how things are now. It is liveable.
>

Me too. As I've said, I don't have a "mood" disorder any more. But then again, I think I'd rather have a mood disorder than apathy.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week

Posted by undopaminergic on April 24, 2020, at 4:13:27

In reply to Re: Starting Cocaine XR next week, posted by rjlockhart37 on April 23, 2020, at 22:22:39

> cocaine = rush, euphoria, intense, feeling alive, common in upper rooms of nightclubs, your high no antidepressant effect
>

Feeling "euphoria" sounds like a great "antidepressant" effect if there ever was one.

> crack = 10x harder, only lasts a few mintues, ...

At least that's better than an orgasm.

-undopaminergic


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