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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 17:43:29
Hello.
This is my first post.
I am 45 years-old and I have had a psychiatric diagnosis since the age of 20. I have been on, and I am on, psychiatric medications.
I will be marrying my fiance in late January and she too has a psychiatric history. But now she refuses to engage in ANY kind of treatment, be it psychiatric medications, psychotherapy, or alternative treatments.
Non compliance on the part of people who suffer from schizophrenia is not unusual. But she HAS been on psych meds in the past, including Prozac and Zyprexa. But as I say, she has refused any treatment, including any psychotherapy, for the last 4 months.
Can anyone offer any suggestions as to how to encourage a loved one to at least CONSIDER treatment? I've tried everything I know of and nothing has worked. [I've also read "I Am Not Sick. I don't Need Help" by Xavier Amador and I found it worthless, although I'm sure fans of NAMI love it]
Thank you
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 18:07:08
In reply to My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 17:43:29
What's her diagnosis and is she exhibiting symptoms? And what are they? Love Phillipa
Posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 18:21:10
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 18:07:08
> What's her diagnosis and is she exhibiting symptoms? And what are they? Love Phillipa
As I have already said, she suffers from schizophrenia. One thing that is interesting about Gabi is that, although she has had 3 breakdowns within the past 10 years, she is not experiencing symptoms now.
However, it is not only likely that she will experience symptoms in the future, it is "guaranteed" [that is the word of my psychopharmacologist] the she will have future breakdowns if she doesn't agree to get back on psychiatric medications.
Thank you for your response.
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 19:01:30
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 18:21:10
She's been very lucky to go this long without symptoms. Does she simply refuse to see a doc or only not take the meds? So for three years no meds? I did work with schizophrenics and you're right she needs to be back on meds. What was she on before? I will go back and read the original thread again. Reasons for her not taking the meds could be voices telling her not too that she's not disclosing to you or they made her feel so tired that she doesn't like them. Very common. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 19:04:18
In reply to My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 17:43:29
I reread it. How come no antipsychotic? Love Phillipa ps what's your diagnosis thinking that if it's the same and she loves you that she might consider going to the doctors with you if you say no consultation no marriage? Just a thought. Love Phillipa
Posted by Quintal on December 16, 2006, at 19:12:40
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 18:21:10
I have a friend who suffers from schizophrenia and is now off meds. She just gave birth to a baby girl. I understand your concern as my friend also has frequent relapses, and has had since the death of her first child (the pdoc discharged her during the middle of her second pregnancy to reduce his waiting list and she suffered a psychotic episode). She is no longer taking any meds that I know of and the pdoc is not interested in giving her any.
There is very little you can do to get a stable person to take meds, only be supportive, try to minimize any stress she's exposed to and watch carefully for signs of psychosis and instability. Trying to encourage her to take meds may have the opposite effect, provoking hostility and distrust which can lead to paranoia and other psychotic symptoms (in my friend at least). My guess is that she's enjoying the sense of freedom and independence from meds and pdocs she now has and is reluctant to give it up while she's well.
I wonder if you could both agree to a plan of action of some sort in the event she suffers another psychotic episode? Perhaps a list of her preferred treatment options and a clear idea of treatments she considers unacceptable or last-ditch efforts may help her feel more comfortable with the idea?
I don't think a major breakdown is *guaranteed* if you can both recognise the warning signs and agree to take action. I know how difficult that can be though. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but there's no easy answer in these circumstances.
Q
Posted by blueberry1 on December 17, 2006, at 11:49:30
In reply to My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 17:43:29
Could you two maybe as a team agree on what symptoms to be on the lookout for, and when they are obvious, have an agreement to call a doctor? Kind of like part of pre-wedding agreement? A husband and wife joint venture kind of thing? I realize the problem with that is that when someone goes schizo, they may not be aware or may not admit that they are. But at least you would have made a team effort compromise thing in advance, which is what marriage is all about anyway.
It's a tough call. I mean, the odds of her having problems again are pretty high. But then, the odds of having more problems from longterm antipsychotic usage are pretty high too. That's been my experience anyway. I generally like the common saying, "if it aint broke don't fix it". But when it breaks, get it fixed promptly.
If you are deadset on having her on preventative medication, the only one I would feel safe mentioning is depakote 500mg to 1000mg. We don't hear of it talked about much for schizophrenia, but there are pharmacology websites that speak of it as preventative medicine, in place of antipsychotics. Antipsychotics are used for acute episodes that get out of control according to some things I've read here and there, but depakote by itself can do a fair job of preventing that from ever happening. Why depakote? Because you want as close to 100% coverage as you can get, with close to 0% side effects. DepakoteER in the 500mg to 1000mg range is practically free of side effects other than some possible weight gain.
Anyway, it is a tough call and it is all arguable. I'm just thinking out loud for whatever it is worth.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 12:46:37
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 19:01:30
Thank you for your response.
I was actually INCORRECT when I said the she is not experiencing any symptoms, although they are currently diminished.
She talks to me about suicide occassionally. She is currently in Europe, living with her family, and I am flying to be with her and her family for 1 week in mid January. While she is there we talk via Messenger.
For example, she said to me at one point yesterday, "What do you (meaning me) say to a person who is talking about committing suicide?"
I gave her my answer and she acknowledged what I said to her. Also, her ex-husband FORCIBLY hospitalized her, twice (this occurred in 1999 and in 2001). This is, primarily, what makes her so sensitive to the psychiatric industry.
And, this what prompts her to say to me over and over, "You won't MAKE me go into the hospital will you?" And, "You won't FORCE me to take psychiatric medications, will you?"
To both questions I always say, "no."
Nevertheless, I can say from first hand experience that she HAS been "psychotic" in my presence, and more than once, and in the PAST. She is NOT currently so. Instances included the following:
1. her trying to take control of the steering wheel while I was driving. She rationalized this by saying to me "SHE was being followed and (she) was trying to escape." I not could not only have killed the both of us had she succeeded, I might have been responsible for the injury or the deaths of others had she succeeded.
2.her peekiing out the blinds of our front window "to keep watch" on those who had been following her
2. She thought that my ex-wife of 11 years was in love with me and that she was trying to break the relationship up between myself and my fiance. The truth is that I've had NO contact with my ex wife for more than 8 years.
3. She "knew" that I had been trying to "poison" her food, so she woke up one night at about 3:10 in the morning and walked and walked. I was worried that if I went to look for her that she would accusse me of trying to follow her. She returned at 9:20 in the morning.
4. Shortly after this she took cash advances from her credit cards in order to afford a flight home to her parents. She did this, again, because she "knew" I had been poisoning her.
5. And I could go and on.
But, about 1 month after she returned to her parents, and after they "forced" her to see a psychiatrist and she was put on Zyprexa her symptoms abated. However, as I say, she has not been on psychiatric medications for months now.
The chances of a person who has had prior episodes of experiencing psychosis having future episodes are excellent. And this is precisely what I fear. In fact, I have to say, it won't surprise me at all if this occurrs, if she continues to refuse any treatment at all.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 12:49:21
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Phillipa on December 16, 2006, at 19:04:18
My diagnosis has always been, and is, "major depression." I have been psychiatrically hospitalized 3 times over the course of my adult life, the last time being in 1997.
I am on psychiatric medications and I am in psychotherapy. But my fiance refuses to see any psychotherapist.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 12:57:53
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Quintal on December 16, 2006, at 19:12:40
... only be supportive, try to minimize any stress she's exposed to and watch carefully for signs of psychosis and instability.... I wonder if you could both agree to a plan of action of some sort in the event she suffers another psychotic episode? Perhaps a list of her preferred treatment options and a clear idea of treatments she considers unacceptable or last-ditch efforts may help her feel more comfortable with the idea?
> Q
Yes, thank you, Q. I appreciate your comments/suggestions and I think your point is excellent. I WILL speak with her re: "a plan," although I doubt she will agree to signing an Advanced Directive (see below).In New York State, a FORMALIZED plan of what you're speaking of is known as an "ADVANCED DIRECTIVE," which is a legal document circulated to all of a person's treating professionals, as well as to psych units. The document, which is signed the person who is the focus of attention, states what treatment(s) the person will and won't allow. It is legally binding on staff at all psych units to which it is submitted and to psychiatrists outside of psych units.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 13:02:01
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by blueberry1 on December 17, 2006, at 11:49:30
> Could you two maybe as a team agree on what symptoms to be on the lookout for, and when they are obvious, have an agreement to call a doctor? Kind of like part of pre-wedding agreement? A husband and wife joint venture kind of thing....
Thank you for your suggestions. Quintal had similar ideas and I will follow up on both.
Posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2006, at 19:46:56
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » blueberry1, posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 13:02:01
Sounds like she seriously needs to stay on some low zyprexa if that's what worked for her. Sorry I think after hearing of the dangerous behavior she is or can be very paranoid. Love Phillipa
Posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 20:26:57
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2006, at 19:46:56
> Sounds like she seriously needs to stay on some low zyprexa if that's what worked for her. Sorry I think after hearing of the dangerous behavior she is or can be very paranoid. Love Phillipa
Phillipa: I tend to agree with you. She believes in the existence and power of the Christian God and another idea I have had is some sort of "12 Step" approach, similar to, although different from, Alcoholics Anonymous' method.
Thank you again.
Posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2006, at 21:31:37
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 20:26:57
Will you be living in America or England? If here in the US you might want to call a mental health clinic and find out if they something like that for her. I admire you for taking on such a large responsibility. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 1:13:45
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 17, 2006, at 20:26:57
> > Sounds like she seriously needs to stay on some low zyprexa if that's what worked for her. Sorry I think after hearing of the dangerous behavior she is or can be very paranoid. Love Phillipa
>
> Phillipa: I tend to agree with you. She believes in the existence and power of the Christian God and another idea I have had is some sort of "12 Step" approach, similar to, although different from, Alcoholics Anonymous' method.
>
> Thank you again.
The psychodynamics of caring for and loving a person with a serious biochemical disorder also has to be acknowledged.Some AA type groups go as far as saying that they shouldn't interdate in groups or see people while they are recovering, although I personally think it is a bit drastic, but then again I guess its part of being agnostic anyhow.
But it is important to remember that no matter how much you love someone, it will be exhausting if you have to be their caretaker as well. Every couple of course depends on each other, I wouldn't deny that.
I think though that MFC counseling between the two of you and a third party therapist is as necessary as medication and/or therapy for your to be wife, just as important as solitary therapy for either of you and your respective doctors.
-- Jay
Posted by Non Heroe on December 18, 2006, at 7:53:16
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 17, 2006, at 21:31:37
> Will you be living in America or England? If here in the US you might want to call a mental health clinic and find out if they something like that for her. I admire you for taking on such a large responsibility. Love Phillipa
We will be living in the USA, Phillipa (she was born and raised in Romania. She came to the USA in 1999). Some kind of "12 Step" approach is an idea, but it's only one idea. One criteria for success for one engaging in any "12 Step" program, from what I have read, is that the person who participates MUST be amenable to the ideas and to the approach.
There is "Emotions Anonymous" as well as other "12 Step" programs in addition to AA.
Posted by Non Heroe on December 18, 2006, at 7:59:22
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by yxibow on December 18, 2006, at 1:13:45
The psychodynamics of caring for and loving a person with a serious biochemical disorder also has to be acknowledged...But it is important to remember that no matter how much you love someone, it will be exhausting if you have to be their caretaker as well. Every couple of course depends on each other, I wouldn't deny that.
I think though that MFC counseling between the two of you and a third party therapist is...important...I acknowledge your important points, and you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. I DO see the both of us engaging in MFC counseling at some point. And, very importantly: it can be VERY difficult, and at times, "exhausting" caring for a loved one, be that person a wife, a husband, girlfriend, boyfriend, son, daughter, etctera.
Believe me, I already know it. I knew it in respect to my father and I know it in respect to my fiance.
Thank you.
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 18:44:36
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Phillipa, posted by Non Heroe on December 18, 2006, at 7:53:16
Do you happen to know what emotions anoymous does? I mean is it for every diagnosis or only some? As there is some here where I live. And any idea what a typical meeting is like? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Non Heroe on December 18, 2006, at 21:33:46
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 18:44:36
Do you happen to know what emotions anoymous does? I mean is it for every diagnosis or only some? As there is some here where I live. And any idea what a typical meeting is like? Thanks Phillipa
This is from Emotions Anonymous web site (http://www.emotionsanonymous.org/): "Emotions Anonymous is a twelve-step organization, similar to Alcoholics Anonymous. Our fellowship is composed of people who come together in weekly meetings for the purpose of working toward recovery from emotional difficulties. EA members are from many walks of life and are of diverse ages, economic status, social and educational backgrounds. The only requirement for membership is a desire to become well emotionally.""Emotions Anonymous" is a 12 Step program which runs along the same lines as other 12 Step Programs. I must say that I have NOT attended ANY meeting of ANY 12 step program. I'm simply responding to you based upon what I have read of them.
Alcoholics Anonymous, Emotions Anonymous, Over Eaters Anonymous, etcetera, have similar steps.
I think the first step of each runs something like, "I admitted I was powerless over alcohol (or drugs, or food, or my emotions, etcetera) and that my life had become unmanageable. I think the second step to all such programs runs something like, "I came to believe that a Power greater than myself could restore me to sanity." And the steps go on.
A person "works" the steps. That is, one consults with a "sponsor," a person who has been a memeber for some time and who is experienced in the ways of the program. The "sponsor" helps the initiate to "work the steps," that is, to engage in the work of the program. When one is finished with all 12 steps one starts from the beginning, again and again.
I think it would be a MISTAKE to become caught up in "diagnoses." You could go to most any 12 step program to get a feel for what it is and if it is for you.
My impression is that individuals who attend speak to the group (I'm not sure what procedures there are, and if there are any, to protect one's identity and anonymity) and tell their "story." They then get feedback from the other members.
There's a lot of information about different 12 step groups on the Internet.
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 21:53:09
In reply to My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 18, 2006, at 21:33:46
There is one by me. Not far away. What happens if you're agoraphobic? Love Phillipa
Posted by Non Heroe on December 19, 2006, at 7:15:54
In reply to Re: My Wife-To-Be and Me » Non Heroe, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2006, at 21:53:09
> There is one by me. Not far away. What happens if you're agoraphobic? Love Phillipa
Then I'm not sure if it is for you, Phillipa. I suppose there's a chance, however, that they MIGHT be willing to run a group out of your own home, but you'd have to speak to them about this, and I think the chances of this are only slight.
But there are probably other "groups" that meet nearby to wherever you live if "Emotions Anonymous" is not amenable to coming to you.
I can easily produce a list MH groups that meet in your city. But you can do the same. One way to do so is to call your Mental Health Association. If you don't know the telephone number you could call information. You could also go to the web and type in the name of your city and then a "," or a " " and then type, "Mental Health Association" and then hit the "enter" key.
Marc
Posted by Sebastian on December 20, 2006, at 11:58:53
In reply to My Wife-To-Be and Me, posted by Non Heroe on December 16, 2006, at 17:43:29
Does she need treatment. Has she gone mad. Some people outgrow it.
This is the end of the thread.
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