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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 19:27:01
In reply to Re: I'm sorry Jon.., posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 19:22:44
Posted by beardedlady on June 5, 2002, at 19:42:56
In reply to Re: It's illegal to take prescription drugs... » beardedlady, posted by adamie on June 5, 2002, at 17:41:03
[my previous post below]
> > that aren't prescribed to you. It's illegal to give your prescription drugs to someone else, even if that person has a prescription for it. Are those things evil too? Or is self-medication okay, as long as it's with medicine sold at the pharmacy?-----
You didn't answer my question, so maybe you missed it. I didn't ask you whether you believed illegal drugs or their users are evil. I asked you about the double standard. If illegal drugs are bad, then taking prescription drugs for which you have no prescription is equally bad.Self-medication is self-medication. And if you think my smoking pot will influence others and cause them to do the same (and I disagree; you haven't been influenced to do so), then someone else taking a friend's Neurontin without a prescription is likely to have the same effect.
beardy : )>
Posted by adamie on June 5, 2002, at 21:17:35
In reply to Re: It's illegal to take prescription drugs... » adamie, posted by beardedlady on June 5, 2002, at 19:42:56
self medicating with legal drugs is far different than self medication from illegal type. those prescription medications are safe compared to that extasy trash and whatever else. the prescription meds are meant to treat our illnesses.> You didn't answer my question, so maybe you missed it. I didn't ask you whether you believed illegal drugs or their users are evil. I asked you about the double standard. If illegal drugs are bad, then taking prescription drugs for which you have no prescription is equally bad.
>
> Self-medication is self-medication. And if you think my smoking pot will influence others and cause them to do the same (and I disagree; you haven't been influenced to do so), then someone else taking a friend's Neurontin without a prescription is likely to have the same effect.
>
> beardy : )>
Posted by adamie on June 5, 2002, at 21:20:38
In reply to Jon: Trust me, Oracle has the data..plus.., posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 18:14:28
sure pot can help cancer patients and a few other very specific sets of people but those are the uses. Not recreation. All those people who want it legalized are 98% people who just want to get high. the other 2% actually want it for medical reasons. so you can throw that entire arguement out the window. it's all about selfishness and not caring how the drugs ruin society. so many artificial damaged minds.
Posted by crepuscular on June 5, 2002, at 22:31:31
In reply to Liberal thinking ? (very long post), posted by omega man on June 3, 2002, at 22:38:08
Recently, (in Michigan I think) there was legislation proposed to ban splitting ones tongue. Apparently some masochistic freaks want to have reptilian tongues and this trend is spreading in freaky subcultures. The grounds for the legislation were that speech problems and nerve damage might result.
Now, as far I'm concerned, you might as well legislate against obesity because it causes early onset diabetes, heart disease, etc.
I oppose such legislation. Where does it stop? How could it possibly be enforced?
As an American, I find *any* law restricting what I can do with my body, state of consciousness, etc. completely odious. The flip side of this freedom is to have a fully developed concern for your fellow human - not hurting them through your actions. That's the trade-off.
So I'm sorry, but I simply can't abide by drug legislation. It doesn't work, it is a social engineering failure. Black markets for drugs exist inside prisons for God's sake.
Where are the lowest STD and teen drug use rates in the world? The Netherlands, where even hard drugs are essentially decriminalized.
I don't take illegal drugs, but someday I'd like to try mushrooms or mescaline (if only I could find them!) The descriptions in literature are interesting to me and seem like valid psychological explorations when done intelligently. These drugs don't seem all that dangerous. Certainly less so than alcohol or cigarettes. But even if they were, it's my right to investigate. Rock climbing is dangerous.
So which one of you is going to say I can't do this before I die? What gives anybody the right to limit my personal freedom?
One word: Taliban.
It's a very slippery slope.
Posted by omega man on June 5, 2002, at 22:58:07
In reply to Re: Tuff to say, posted by jonh kimble on June 5, 2002, at 17:57:28
I find drugs alone pretty useless..just a chemical shift..but to squew reality...play about with time..in that sometimes we have pressure to think dynamically..say an opportunity arises...
if you don't abuse the drugs and just have them somehwhere for the right moment..then each drug is like its own little "spell" you can use..allowing you to open little doors..or if stress whacks you out the blue it does not have to close you down for a week...I managed to grieve and vent my frustration when my grandfather died very very quickly because I had the drugs to hand..for that purpose...mainly I took Ectasy for the time when we had to say goodbye ..so he would feel everything I had...because he had so little time taking E helped me say everything in a very quick space.
Drugs give me freedom and control to have a new kind of mental life..I have a dozen favourites and 3 of them aint legal.I don't let Pdocs tell me what drugs to take or when..but thats because I live in the UK..where they have to follow strict and out of date practise...luckily my mothers a privately trained Pdoc so maybe that helps me ...
Posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 23:08:26
In reply to Re: Tuff to say » jonh kimble, posted by omega man on June 5, 2002, at 22:58:07
Convenient mother. Has she ever read this board?
Posted by JonW on June 5, 2002, at 23:24:55
In reply to Yes! To Super Liberal thinking , posted by crepuscular on June 5, 2002, at 22:31:31
> So which one of you is going to say I can't do this before I die? What gives anybody the right to limit my personal freedom?
>
> One word: Taliban.
>
> It's a very slippery slope.Hi crepuscular,
I think you've made an awfully big leap! I, for one, lean toward agreeing with you and saying that you should be able to do whatever you want so long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone other than yourself. However, I think it becomes a tricky business when deciding what should be the law. I don't think this is a black and white issue. If you have a daughter and are always drunk and high you will have impacted her life as well as your own. How does this play into the whole personal freedom thing? How do we decide what's best for society?
Jon
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 5, 2002, at 23:30:10
In reply to Re: It's illegal to take prescription drugs... » beardedlady, posted by adamie on June 5, 2002, at 17:41:03
> so yes the illegal drug users are evil... how would you feel if you had a son taking heroin? it's disgusting. and the general population is too. which can be clearly seen here.
Please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory or put them down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, or complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Zo on June 5, 2002, at 23:50:55
In reply to Yes! To Super Liberal thinking , posted by crepuscular on June 5, 2002, at 22:31:31
Posted by omega man on June 6, 2002, at 0:12:32
In reply to Re: Tuff to say » omega man, posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 23:08:26
Shes very old fashioned...no PC...no net...she seems to keep up to date fine without it..and always knows whats going on...
maybe shes here just now with a hidden laptop and GSM card...maybe shes Dr bob !!
maybe i'm being silly ...
Posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 10:40:14
In reply to oracle airlines now boarding for Amsterdam 8) (nm), posted by Phil on June 5, 2002, at 19:27:01
Phil,
I have never started if I do or don't do drugs.
Actually I have posted very little here. You seem to be assuming things about me. Please stop. If you wish to enter into this discussion, please do not assume things about me.
Posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 12:22:40
In reply to Re: oracle airlines (Attn Dr BOB), posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 10:40:14
oracle, my apologies. I thought you were someone I knew posting under a different handle. I thought I had read that recently.
The thing I assumed is that you were someone else who used to be quite open about it.
Glad you straightened me out.
If I choose to enter a discussion, it won't come up again.
Should have verified my info, sorry.
Posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 12:32:39
In reply to Re: oracle airlines (Attn Dr BOB) » oracle, posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 12:22:40
Posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 13:16:56
In reply to Re: oracle airlines (Attn Dr BOB) » oracle, posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 12:22:40
> oracle, my apologies. I thought you were someone I knew posting under a different handle. I thought I had read that recently.
> The thing I assumed is that you were someone else who used to be quite open about it.In that case, you still were not respecting others views. It seems to me your apology
is about thinking I am someone else, and not about respecting differing viewpoints.
Posted by beardedlady on June 6, 2002, at 15:45:10
In reply to Re: oracle airlines (Attn Dr BOB), posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 13:16:56
Oracle:
Phil is a nice guy who would never knowingly hurt anyone else. His contribution to this discussion showed no disrespect for others' viewpoints (some other posters resorted to judgment and name calling, but Phil did not). We do have a right to respectfully disagree with others, and I believe that's what Phil did.
The problem in this case was that Phil thought you were another poster, and in his attempt to agree with that poster and join forces with him, he disagreed with you. He apologized for that. He needn't apologize for holding a different view, as he wasn't disrespectful.
beardy : )>
Posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 17:13:09
In reply to Phil and respect » oracle, posted by beardedlady on June 6, 2002, at 15:45:10
and in his attempt to agree with that poster and join forces with him, he disagreed with you.
Oracle here....
Ohhhhhh ! Ahhhhhh ! (Opps) Sorry !
I misunderstood when phil said "Oracle has all the answers" and the airlines thing to be a put down to me or whoever Phil thought I am. I reread things after your comments (which caused a light to go on). Somehow I did not get what side of the fence Phil was on, on this issue.
Sorry, I apologize to Phile and the list.
Posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 17:37:29
In reply to Re: Phil and respect (Ahhhh ! Ohhhh!), posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 17:13:09
Hey, no biggie. The reason I thought you were another poster is when you answered someone by starting: oracle here,
We had a good guy around for years and he started every reply like that. Nobody else does it that way. Glad you're here.Phil
Posted by Phil on June 6, 2002, at 17:43:25
In reply to Phil and respect » oracle, posted by beardedlady on June 6, 2002, at 15:45:10
Thanks, you are a good pal. I couldn't figure out what I was missing. Kinda worn out lately.
Phil
Posted by JonW on June 6, 2002, at 19:12:12
In reply to Re: Phil and respect (Ahhhh ! Ohhhh!), posted by oracle on June 6, 2002, at 17:13:09
> I misunderstood when phil said "Oracle has all the answers" and the airlines thing to be a put down to me or whoever Phil thought I am. I reread things after your comments (which caused a light to go on). Somehow I did not get what side of the fence Phil was on, on this issue.
That's interesting because when I saw the post "oracle has all the ansers" I thought that was a put down to me...
Jon
Posted by Cisco on June 8, 2002, at 17:26:31
In reply to Yes! To Super Liberal thinking , posted by crepuscular on June 5, 2002, at 22:31:31
The War on Drugs has had a FAR more ruinous effect on Society, than the banned drugs themselves have ever caused.
Legalization of ALL drugs is the only solution to this dilemma. Take the GOLDMINE out of these drugs! Then strictly control and administer them to those who want them, for a reasonable price.
Holland is heading in this direction, with excellent results so far.
No other solution will work. We will stop this insanity, eventually. And looking back, this era will be considered as a modern "Dark Ages".
Cisco
Posted by crepuscular on June 9, 2002, at 13:00:08
In reply to Re: Yes! To Super Liberal thinking , posted by Cisco on June 8, 2002, at 17:26:31
kids have an easier time buying marijuana than cigarettes. this has been shown in several studies and is a direct result of the concominant legalization & control of tobbaco.
what seems obvious on the surface of things is not always the underlying structure of a solution.
as a society we doubly punish addicts by not recognizing that some pre-existing vulnerability or situation is likely driving the addiction. we say they have "weak" character or whatever. i say lets decriminalize and move the entire issue into the public health area - where it belongs.
all the funds being spent on the specious "war on drugs" should be going to treatment & intervention. drug-based crime would plummet to zip, dealers would be out of a job, and the international cartels/laundering goons sent packing - literally overnight. this is the *only* weapon that will defuse the problem.
think of it - the dealers put out of business!!! farmers in Bolivia growing food! no money for the FARC in Columbia. yes!! the answer is right in front of us, but we lack the vision.
this solution is so obvious, such a no-brainer, that i feel a sense of enormous frustration with knee-jerk opinions ot the contrary.
by the way, my aunt, who is a Catholic nun experienced in counseling addicts, feels precisely the same way. but her opinion comes from a place of compassion. she feels that the economic lure & social reward of dealing drugs so overwhelms other alternatives in the inner city that it almost represents a rational choice on the part of users/dealers.
we must cut the nuts off the economic engine of this destructive force.
Posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:54:16
In reply to Re: Yes! To Super Liberal thinking , posted by crepuscular on June 9, 2002, at 13:00:08
>we must cut the nuts off the economic engine of this destructive force.
whos going to have the balls to do it ?
Posted by crepuscular on June 10, 2002, at 12:46:33
In reply to Re: Yes! To Super Liberal thinking ..well said » crepuscular, posted by omega man on June 9, 2002, at 14:54:16
well, if i were electable, i'd do it.
but who would elect a bipolar musician president? i can see the CNN news "President Crepuscular is feeling sad today, so he's going to be writing melancholy songs in the Oval office for the next week."
Or, "President Crepuscular has not slept in four days because of excitement over new environmental legislation." or even, "President Crepuscular has slept for an entire week and refuses to shave."
Still, when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro... I think we live in interesting times.
Posted by Steven G on January 7, 2003, at 3:24:23
In reply to Liberal thinking ? (very long post), posted by omega man on June 3, 2002, at 22:38:08
You need to rethink.Legal or illegal drugs should be avoided as much as possible.How many drugs have had terrible side effects that were never detected for over 30 years.If you combine drugs your risk is greatly amplified even with the most studied drugs.Everybodies brain chemestry has differences.The wrong combo could destabilize the core of who you are permantly.You really sound like a nice guy.I am worried for you.Take what you absolutely must (as far as drugs go),and find more love brother.
This is the end of the thread.
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