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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fogmama on January 7, 2004, at 13:05:03
This is a continuation of a discussion between a few people on the main babble board called "when are meds justified (emotional flatness)".
I find that I can very easily get depressed about the writing I've been meaning to do (and wanting to send work out for consideration to publish, which I've done only a couple of times in 20+ years of writing) and then I get frozen up in non-functional delaying ... lots of work stashed away where no one can read it ... I know this is not unique & many writers go through the same. It seems to me like a vicious circle.
Is this an issue for you? What has helped?
fogmama
Posted by antigua on January 7, 2004, at 17:24:39
In reply to writing, depression, procrastination, posted by fogmama on January 7, 2004, at 13:05:03
My best writing comes when I am emotionally committed to it, or if I am emotionally vested in what I have to say. That's the really good stuff, but I don't share it very often. I usually need someone to write to and I've always been intrigued by the idea of one "reader" to focus on. So I guess I'm really saying that I HAVE to be depressed to really write (not regular writing or editing that I make my living from, but something more substantial).
Procrastination? That word is not in my vocabulary as I have never had the courage to put myself out on a limb w/my writing to see if I could sell my own stuff. Actually, that's not quite true, I did try (half-heartedly) once. I entered a contest but didn't win of course. But then the piece wasn't that good either and I knew it.
I don't really have any encouraging words for anyone else, I can barely take care of myself.
The writer's group idea is probably a good one, but I don't suffer fools lightly and I don't have the patience to have some half-wit dissect my work when they don't understand it in the first place. Defensive? Absolutely, I'm very defensive about my writing. Maybe that's because my writing is the only thing that totally belongs to me and it's really the only way I can let my feelings out.
Enough rambling. I like the idea of this writer's "babble" but I don't know where it will lead us. If we could support and encourage one another that would be great.
antigua
Posted by fogmama on January 7, 2004, at 23:14:56
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by antigua on January 7, 2004, at 17:24:39
antigua,
> I don't have the patience to have some half-wit dissect my work when they don't understand it in the first place
LOL!
You would definitely want to choose your writing group partners carefully ... or start a group that is for sharing only, not critique ... the other option, if you do want critique, is to set ground rules for the critique that help protect the integrity of each writer and respect everyone's work and opinion (which works best if someone with experience can act as a facilitator and the ground rules are given to everyone at the beginning of the group and reinforced whenever they're violated).
I think I am envious of your lack of procrastination. :)
fogmama
Posted by nobodyz on January 7, 2004, at 23:20:16
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by antigua on January 7, 2004, at 17:24:39
Out of 35 years of writing I've been published as many times. None of it has been shown on the Hallmark channel or HBO. However, writing something of great length has been an obstacle I seem unable to overcome. Some of it, I believe, is about "self-esteem" to use a very worn out term. To be more specific, when one has a mental illness or disorder, the cultural assumption (and it is also often quite internalized) is that our minds are "questionable". I can't think of a more destructive pervasive belief than this for a writer. I have felt for a very long time that my writing has suffered as a result of stigma much more than the actual disorder I suffer from.
When I do write, I receive rave reviews and often experience astonishment on the part of any individual reader who gives me one on one feedback. I am verbally articulate as well, so they aren't astonished that I have a working brain. What this tells me is that my own "esteem" of my writing ability is low. I really believe this is the culprit.
Anyone else feel this way?
-nobodyz
Posted by antigua on January 8, 2004, at 8:19:16
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by nobodyz on January 7, 2004, at 23:20:16
Absolutely. I know exactly how you feel. It's always a fight between me and myself; I have no harsher critic than me. My only suggestion (and it is to myself really) is to do it in pieces and then put them together so it's not such a daunting task. For me, it's all about fear and putting myself out there, as if I'm exposing myself. I don't have anything more personal than my words.
Maybe we could all work on encouraging each other.
What is everyone's writing style--do you write everday? or in bursts?
antigua
Posted by octopusprime on January 8, 2004, at 22:18:38
In reply to writing, depression, procrastination, posted by fogmama on January 7, 2004, at 13:05:03
fogmama -
i work as a technical writer and being frozen on non-functional delays is a HUGE problem. i can (and do) spend days and days surfing the internet.
why do i freeze up?
* don't know what direction the document is taking
* trapped in some awkward phrasing that i just can't get to sound right
* afraid to ask for feedback, fear of looking dumb
* tired, hungry, cranky, didn't sleep well, upset, brain full of fog (file under miscellaneous physical and spiritual ailments unrelated to the task at hand)
* feeling that existential pointlessness about it all - i have no readers, the two people that read it don't care, so why should i botheretc etc
so of course since i do depend on writing for a regular paycheque, i have to be more disciplined about it.
coping strategies:
* multiple projects at once - if one blocks, try another
* multitasking - this is easier in a cube environment - surf the net in one window. have document open in the other. when somebody walks by, switch from net to document. write something. eventually the micro time slices and fake writing will turn into real writing. (it may take some time - weeks - to gain that momentum)
* deadlines. i work better with a deadline. this is easy at work. however, if you are writing for yourself, could you consider entering contests, etc? i know there are novel-in-a-month contests and other x-treme writing techniques. but deadline pressure will help in volume of writing (if not quality).the coping strategies don't always work, but my bosses don't complain about my productivity. (therefore i can say that they're effective enough for me.)
hope you people don't mind the contribution of the technical writer (who never gets her name published, and doesn't have to worry so much about being creative)
Posted by gardenergirl on January 9, 2004, at 8:22:42
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination » fogmama, posted by octopusprime on January 8, 2004, at 22:18:38
I, too suffer from serious procrastination when it comes to writing. I seem to work best if I have an absolute deadline, and then I am rushing and writing up to the very last second, if not beyond.
I am struggling to figure this out, as it seriously affects my school work. The only thing I can come up with is that writing is permanent. Someone can READ IT! I do much better verbally, perhaps because of an illusion I have that if I say it, it could just magically go away, but if it is documented, it's permanently there for anyone to critique.
So far, the only technique that has worked even a little is to start writing what I want to SAY verbally, even if it seems less coherent than what I would write. I can always go back and edit.
The most ironic thing about my anxiety about writing is that I almost always get positive feedback about my writing style. What do I have to be anxious about if writing is supposedly one of my strengths? AAARGH! It's so frustrating.
Any thoughts on this?
Posted by nobodyz on January 9, 2004, at 12:41:30
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by gardenergirl on January 9, 2004, at 8:22:42
> I am struggling to figure this out, as it seriously affects my school work. The only thing I can come up with is that writing is permanent. Someone can READ IT!
> Any thoughts on this?
Just a thought: Take a trip to your local Barnes and Nobel (leave the credit cards at home) and just LOOK. You have SOME protection in the fact that your words will be swallowed up in a peculiar anonymity due to sheer volume. Yes, it's permanent, yes, someone can read it, but it's not on 2 tablets of stone called the 10 commandments. (Wonder if Moses got writer's block?)Just a THOUGHT. I use it to comfort myself. Also, as a published writer, I have found that most people I know never know I'm published unless I tell them, and never read it unless I hand it to them. Another comforting thought. :)
-nobodyz
Posted by nobodyz on January 9, 2004, at 12:47:03
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by gardenergirl on January 9, 2004, at 8:22:42
> The most ironic thing about my anxiety about writing is that I almost always get positive feedback about my writing style. What do I have to be anxious about if writing is supposedly one of my strengths? AAARGH! It's so frustrating.
>
> Any thoughts on this?Sounds like an "esteem" problem to me. Just like mine. I have far too much anxiety about my writing in view of my actual style and talent. For me, some of the anxiety is due to being told as a child that I shouldn't "tell". I still have nightmares about writing something that lets out a family secret and then there is hell to pay. Sounds almost like a Stephen King saga doesn't it?
Hang in there and WRITE everyone! :)
-nobodyz
Posted by antigua on January 9, 2004, at 15:22:31
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination » gardenergirl, posted by nobodyz on January 9, 2004, at 12:47:03
"For me, some of the anxiety is due to being told as a child that I shouldn't "tell". I still have nightmares about writing something that lets out a family secret and then there is hell to pay."
>>Wow, I always think of my writing as a way to tell the secrets. It's the only way I can do it; I can't talk about it out loud.
antigua
Posted by antigua on January 9, 2004, at 15:24:06
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by antigua on January 9, 2004, at 15:22:31
Posted by gardenergirl on January 11, 2004, at 11:47:39
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination » gardenergirl, posted by nobodyz on January 9, 2004, at 12:47:03
> Sounds like an "esteem" problem to me. Just like mine. I have far too much anxiety about my writing in view of my actual style and talent.You're probably right. Trying to work on esteem, but it's tough.
For me, some of the anxiety is due to being told as a child that I shouldn't "tell". I still have nightmares about writing something that lets out a family secret and then there is hell to pay. Sounds almost like a Stephen King saga doesn't it?
>Don't you just love how all those "well-meaning" parental words can affect us so profoundly? But think about Pat Conroy (The Great Santini, The Prince of Tides). Talk about family secrets. Those were great books. Wonder if he had heck to pay?
Posted by fogmama on January 11, 2004, at 16:53:48
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by gardenergirl on January 11, 2004, at 11:47:39
>think about Pat Conroy (The Great Santini, The Prince of Tides)
Yes! Actually I heard an interview with him a few weeks back and he has written a new book about the impact of his previous books on his life and relationship with his father - and about his life playing basketball earlier on - I think the title reflects the basketball part.
What he said was that his father ended up taking some pride in being the model for the Great Santini (imagine that), and he would go to book signings with Pat and sign the book too. !!!
Seriously - about "telling" and how it relates to writing anxiety, I think that is a factor for some of us. I have that issue when it comes to personal writing, and general performance anxiety when it comes to other writing. I was trained to be a "perfectionist", which can kill spontenaity.
Well, it's good we're not all alone, isn't it?
fm
Posted by fogmama on January 11, 2004, at 17:01:07
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination » gardenergirl, posted by fogmama on January 11, 2004, at 16:53:48
> I think the title reflects the basketball part.
"My Losing Season" is the title.
fm
Posted by nobodyz on January 13, 2004, at 23:35:19
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination, posted by gardenergirl on January 11, 2004, at 11:47:39
>Don't you just love how all those "well-meaning" parental words can affect us so profoundly? But think about Pat Conroy (The Great Santini, The Prince of Tides). Talk about family secrets. Those were great books. Wonder if he had heck to pay?
Wow, there's a mouthful. What a great question too. I loved the Prince of Tides because Conroy did such a great job of balancing between the reality that we ARE horrifically affected by our parents, well into adulthood, they sometimes "mess up" far more than they seemingly should and still not be locked up, yet still, there is this thing called the "human condition". The man amazed me with his profound views. Personally, I have a hard time getting there myself. If he DID have heck to pay, they were blind!
-nobodyz
Posted by nobodyz on January 13, 2004, at 23:39:30
In reply to Re: writing, depression, procrastination » gardenergirl, posted by fogmama on January 11, 2004, at 16:53:48
> What he said was that his father ended up taking some pride in being the model for the Great Santini (imagine that), and he would go to book signings with Pat and sign the book too. !!!
>
> Seriously - about "telling" and how it relates to writing anxiety, I think that is a factor for some of us. I have that issue when it comes to personal writing, and general performance anxiety when it comes to other writing. I was trained to be a "perfectionist", which can kill spontenaity.
>
> Well, it's good we're not all alone, isn't it?
>
> fm
>Thanks for the info about Conroy's new book and his dad. I have the "perfectionist" flaw as well, and yeah, it kills spontenaity like light kills darkness: instantly and completely. Sometimes I have to be nearly comotose to write past a block or the perfectionism will kill the story dead in it's tracks just as it's starting to get really good.
:) -nobodyz
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