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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:11:25
Wow, I had no idea that what I've been going through the past 3 days was withdrawal symptoms. I thought I had the stomach flu! I forgot to take my meds one morning, and I was only halfway to work when my stomach started feeling really nasty. By noon I could barely sit up straight. I left work early, and 4 hours later I had the worst diarrhea I'd ever had in my life. Several hours later I'd puked up everything I'd eaten that day, and yesterday I couldn't go to work. Today I went to work, but had to leave early again; I felt so dizzy that it felt like I had the world's worst hangover. Now it doesn't matter if I'm sitting or standing, the room keeps spinning.
All this makes me wonder though; I've been off my meds for 3 days now, would it really be worth it for me to go back on a low dose of this crap or should I just stick it out? I've got a 3 day weekend ahead of me now, will this last longer than that?
Some advice for anyone who is thinking of going on this medication for depression; try going to a psychologist first before you go on the pills. If anyone had told me that the withdrawal would be this nasty, I would have avoided them like the plague.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 21:41:51
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:11:25
Hi.
If you taper your doses effectively, it might not be so uncomfortable. If it were me, I would restart it and use a flexible dosing strategy to taper and discontinue the drug altogether. It shouldn't take more than a few weeks.
Flexible dosing strategies are discussed elsewhere on this page. I am currently the only proponent of its use, but it looks promising based on what others are reporting.
How much Zoloft were you taking? How did you go about discontinuing it?
I don't think you can generalize to others your difficulties in discontinuing Zoloft and pronounce it a bad drug. I have seen it be a lifesaving drug for the people who need it.
Good luck, whatever you decide.
- Scott
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:58:35
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » Jasmine25, posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 21:41:51
I think I might try tapering more slowly. I was already trying to taper off, but the day that I totally forgot to take my dose I had no idea it would hit me so hard. I just wondered if I was at the point of no return, being completely off of it for 3 days already.
At my highest, I was at 100mg daily. My doctor told me to go down to 50, then to 25 after a month or so. My intent was to follow this, but I wish I'd read about the withdrawal effects before I'd been so careless to forget taking it once.
I don't think that Zoloft is a bad drug; I just wish that someone had told how badly the withdrawal symptoms could affect me before I started taking it. I may have considered a different treatment recourse before turning to the drug. Unfortunately, my doctor wasn't very informative about that part.
All this being said, would 25mg possibly be sufficient as a starting-over point for me?
Posted by SLS on March 19, 2005, at 8:40:02
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » SLS, posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:58:35
Hi.
Remember - I am not a doctor.
Yes. 3 is the magic number. That's how long it takes for most of these drugs to produce a withdrawal syndrome after an abrupt dosage reduction or discontinuation.
How much Zoloft were you taking before you discontinued it? Were you experiencing any pronounced withdrawal symptoms at that dosage?
I am currently advocating the use of a flexible dosage tapering strategy for discontinuing SSRIs and Effexor. This involves dosing using small amounts 2-4 times a day.
If it were me, and I had been stable at 50mg, I would restart Zoloft by taking 25mg twice a day for at least two days. Then, split the 25mg tablets in half and try taking 12.5mg three times a day. Let's see how you do with that.
Can you split each 25mg tablet into quarters = 6.25mg?
- Scott
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 10:34:29
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » Jasmine25, posted by SLS on March 19, 2005, at 8:40:02
Well, I must say that this morning I feel alot better. The dizziness is 98% gone, only hits me when I stand up too quickly. I think I may be ok as long as I don't overexert myself today. My head feels pretty good, and I haven't got a headache. I would imagine that the wicked headache I had a few nights ago was due to the withdrawal symptoms as well.
I was taking 50mg before I discontinued it. I felt fine up until that point, going from 100mg to 50mg didn't seem to affect me at all.
If I had to do it again, I would definitely try a flexible dosage tapering strategy. I would not recommend going cold turkey, it seems to wreak havoc on your system.The other thing is, it's hard for me to split the pills as they are not tablets but capsules. So, I was actually splitting my 100mg pills into half, but I could never be sure that I was splitting them equally. If they had been tablets they would have been much easier to work with.
Thank you for your advice. If I notice any of my symptoms worsening again, at least I know what is causing them and what to do to grant my system a little bit of relief.
Posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 18:21:59
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:11:25
Very few people can make the cut you did and feel ok. This is only my opinion that has been fleshed out with experience and research, but there is something that you also need to remember. Going with a set schedule of how to taper is nonsense. Sorry SLS. It simply is. You should make no more than a 5-10% cut and you should stay at that dose until you are stable. That may be a week or a month, but that doesn't matter and the idea here is to get through this with the least suffering possible. Whether it takes you a few weeks or a few months DOES NOT matter. The impulse to rid our bodies of these neurotoxins only exacerbates withdrawals in case after case.
Also, there are a number of things you could be doing to boost your CNS, which is in chaos right now. If I were to recommend three I would go with:
1)Fish Oil(Carlson's Liquid brand, not the crap in the stores)
2)Magnesium
3)Colloidial Trace MineralsThere are other things I'd do as well, but that is a good start. Mix in tons of fresh, spring water and some exercise with a prudent, non-time framed taper and you will be much better off. Oh, I'd go to 50 and wait to stabilize and then start all over. You will be saving yourself plenty of grief. Best of luck
> Wow, I had no idea that what I've been going through the past 3 days was withdrawal symptoms. I thought I had the stomach flu! I forgot to take my meds one morning, and I was only halfway to work when my stomach started feeling really nasty. By noon I could barely sit up straight. I left work early, and 4 hours later I had the worst diarrhea I'd ever had in my life. Several hours later I'd puked up everything I'd eaten that day, and yesterday I couldn't go to work. Today I went to work, but had to leave early again; I felt so dizzy that it felt like I had the world's worst hangover. Now it doesn't matter if I'm sitting or standing, the room keeps spinning.
>
> All this makes me wonder though; I've been off my meds for 3 days now, would it really be worth it for me to go back on a low dose of this crap or should I just stick it out? I've got a 3 day weekend ahead of me now, will this last longer than that?
>
> Some advice for anyone who is thinking of going on this medication for depression; try going to a psychologist first before you go on the pills. If anyone had told me that the withdrawal would be this nasty, I would have avoided them like the plague.
Posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 18:23:21
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Jasmine25 on March 18, 2005, at 21:11:25
Your body and mind is always a better thing to judge from than a set schedule or a doctor who rarely knows how to go off these drugs properly.
Posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2005, at 20:34:45
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 18:23:21
It's funny. The pdocs always used to tell me to just stop an AD and then they replaced it with something else. My neurotransmitters must have been going crazy! I'm now more convinced than ever to get off the remaining 25mg of zoloft, and now down to 7.5mg of remeron. Maybe the total of l5mg of valium I take a day is keeping me from W/D effects, or maybe I don't really need them. Or, I've been switched so often that the amt of time I'm on them is not long enough to become addicted. How long does it take to become addicted to a particular AD? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 19, 2005, at 22:34:01
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 18:23:21
> Going with a set schedule of how to taper is nonsense. Sorry SLS. It simply is.
You might want to review my posts, or perhaps read them more carefully.
I am an advocate of flexible dosing.
- Scott
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 23:14:05
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » bruin, posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2005, at 20:34:45
> It's funny. The pdocs always used to tell me to just stop an AD and then they replaced it with something else. My neurotransmitters must have been going crazy! I'm now more convinced than ever to get off the remaining 25mg of zoloft, and now down to 7.5mg of remeron. Maybe the total of l5mg of valium I take a day is keeping me from W/D effects, or maybe I don't really need them. Or, I've been switched so often that the amt of time I'm on them is not long enough to become addicted. How long does it take to become addicted to a particular AD? Fondly, Phillipa
Apparently it doesn't take long to become addicted; I've only been on Zoloft for 6 months, and it's the only AD I've ever been on. At the highest, my dosage peaked at 100mg, which I understand is relatively low.
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 23:18:20
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 18:23:21
Very true. I've been off the meds cold turkey for going on 5 days now. Once I made it through the initial withdrawal (which for me was the worst) it seems to be getting easier. I've been trying to see if I should just give in and take a dose just to lessen my withdrawal symptoms, but every day my mind seems to get clearer and physically it's getting easier. I wouldn't recommend cold turkey though. Tapering slowly would definitely be a lot easier on your system; for me though, I feel like I'm past the point of no return, I'd rather just stay off now.
Posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 23:28:23
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » bruin, posted by SLS on March 19, 2005, at 22:34:01
"It shouldn't take more than a few weeks"
There is no way to possibly know this.
"If it were me, and I had been stable at 50mg, I would restart Zoloft by taking 25mg twice a day for at least two days. Then, split the 25mg tablets in half and try taking 12.5mg three times a day. Let's see how you do with that."
Just because you say you advocate something that is flexible doesn't make it so. The aforementioned quote says try it for two days. Where did you come up with this arbitrary number?
As has been previously stated, we just happen to disagree and that is fine. I just don't think you can EVER put a prescribed amount of days to tapering of any of these drugs and doing so doesn't take into account an individual's biochemistry. The only person that can do that is the person doing the taper. Their body and brain should be the ultimate judge. It is a point I am pretty adamant on and that is why I continually point it out. Everyone's first inclination is to rush to get the stuff out of their system and that invariably causes more problems. Hence, flexible dosing shouldn't have any mention of how long it will take if it were truly flexible. Take care> > Going with a set schedule of how to taper is nonsense. Sorry SLS. It simply is.
>
> You might want to review my posts, or perhaps read them more carefully.
>
> I am an advocate of flexible dosing.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 23:32:22
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » bruin, posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 23:18:20
Well, I really hope it goes well for you. I strongly encourage you to do all you can to support your body during this process by maybe trying the things I mentioned above and surely eating well(tons of veggies and good, unfettered sources of animal protein), drinking tons of spring water, exercising(even if it is just a walk), and perhaps tapping into your higher power. God bless
> Very true. I've been off the meds cold turkey for going on 5 days now. Once I made it through the initial withdrawal (which for me was the worst) it seems to be getting easier. I've been trying to see if I should just give in and take a dose just to lessen my withdrawal symptoms, but every day my mind seems to get clearer and physically it's getting easier. I wouldn't recommend cold turkey though. Tapering slowly would definitely be a lot easier on your system; for me though, I feel like I'm past the point of no return, I'd rather just stay off now.
Posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 23:35:18
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » Phillipa, posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 23:14:05
"How long does it take to become addicted to a particular AD"
I don't know if I'd use the term addicted simply because I know people who have been badly damaged from ONE dose of an SSRI. Perhaps the better question is how long does it take for these drugs to screw up your central nervous system. Not long. Stay on them and then the whole addiction issue comes into play.
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 9:59:58
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 23:28:23
> "It shouldn't take more than a few weeks"
>
> There is no way to possibly know this.
>
> "If it were me, and I had been stable at 50mg, I would restart Zoloft by taking 25mg twice a day for at least two days. Then, split the 25mg tablets in half and try taking 12.5mg three times a day. Let's see how you do with that."
>
> Just because you say you advocate something that is flexible doesn't make it so. The aforementioned quote says try it for two days. Where did you come up with this arbitrary number?You gotta start somewhere.
How I came to the numbers was not at all arbitrary.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 10:09:42
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » bruin, posted by Jasmine25 on March 19, 2005, at 23:18:20
Hi.
> I've been off the meds cold turkey for going on 5 days now. Once I made it through the initial withdrawal (which for me was the worst) it seems to be getting easier.
I might have asked this question before. If so, I apologize.
What other medications are you currently taking?
> I've been trying to see if I should just give in and take a dose just to lessen my withdrawal symptoms, but every day my mind seems to get clearer and physically it's getting easier.
Yay!
> I wouldn't recommend cold turkey though. Tapering slowly would definitely be a lot easier on your system;
I wish I didn't hear this statement made so often here.
> for me though, I feel like I'm past the point of no return, I'd rather just stay off now.
I would too if I were in your position.
:-)
I hope things keep getting better for you. It sounds like you're on your way.
What are your future plans?
Please keep us apprised.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 10:12:28
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa, posted by bruin on March 19, 2005, at 23:35:18
> > "How long does it take to become addicted to a particular AD"
> I don't know if I'd use the term addicted simply because I know people who have been badly damaged from ONE dose of an SSRI.
How so?
- Scott
Posted by bruin on March 20, 2005, at 10:52:55
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa » bruin, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 10:12:28
I know a number of people who have taken one dose and have been ill for months and in some cases years. Granted, it is rare, but as I have said before everyone's biochemistry is different. I can list the symptoms if you'd like.Check #4 below. It is from Dr. Smith, who is what I would call an enlightened shrink. Take care
----I no longer recommend psychiatric medications to anyone.
This seems radical in this country because we are in the midst of the "biological revolution." Everyone seems to assume medications are are specifically effective for various mental illnesses which are at least in part chemical or genetic in origin. I believe the science behind this is seriously flawed. It is based on false assumptions that lead to self-perpetuating mythology (and huge profits for drug companies).
I first gave up on tranquilizers, then antidepressants, then all psychiatric drugs. I learned that there are certain general principles that govern all psychoactive substances and biologic treatments.
General Principles:
(1) "Mental illnesses," even severe ones, are relational (I'd say spiritual as well). Psychiatry, by focusing almost exclusively on biology, is making itself increasingly irrelevant.
(2) Psychoactive substances provide at best, temporary relief, but always make things worse in the long run. They make things worse directly
(chemically) and indirectly by distracting from the real issues.
(3) All psychoactive substances have rebound and withdrawal-related problems. "Relapse" rates, in general, during withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, are about 10 times higher than would be expected if the drug had never been taken.
(4) "All biopsychiatric treatments share a common mode of action -- the disruption of normal brain function" (Peter Breggin, M.D., Brain Disabling Treatments in Psychiatry, Springer Pub. Co., 1997, p.
3). Drugs never correct imbalances. They never improve the brain. They "work" by impairing the brain and dampening feelings in various ways.
> > > "How long does it take to become addicted to a particular AD"
>
> > I don't know if I'd use the term addicted simply because I know people who have been badly damaged from ONE dose of an SSRI.
>
> How so?
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa, posted by bruin on March 20, 2005, at 10:52:55
Hi Bruin.
> I know a number of people who have taken one dose and have been ill for months and in some cases years.
This is a startling assertion.
Did you witness these reactions yourself? What was the nature of these illnesses? Can you be more specific? Did this illness present the same way in everyone who experienced this reaction? What were the acute effects, and what were the chronic effects. Were they the same?
Thanks for your input.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2005, at 15:47:19
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa » bruin, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 12:23:00
Yes, I would like to hear more about these people too. I know you can experience bad side effects, but you can from all meds. How it could effect you long term I can't imagine, unless it induced seizures, or an analphlactic reaction. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Jasmine25 on March 20, 2005, at 21:20:18
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » Jasmine25, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 10:09:42
> What other medications are you currently taking?
I'm not on any other meds.
> What are your future plans?
I'm planning to stay off the AD's. I only suffered from a mild bout of depression, most of which was related to my work situation and that has since changed.
I'm going on my 6th day now and don't seem to have too many problems except for the dizziness now and then. It seems to be subsiding and isn't nearly as bad as it was a couple of days ago.
Thanks for the support.
Posted by bruin on March 22, 2005, at 2:03:40
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa » bruin, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 12:23:00
Three people I know personally have had such things happen. I have probably corresponded with dozens. I have read many more accounts. I am gonna make this quick because it is late and I need rest quick:-) Basically they all suffer from varying degrees of peripheral neuropathy. The numbness, tingling, muscular weakness, and sensitivity to touch are pretty common. They don't all present the same way and like I said it is to varying degrees, but it is not in the interest of a multibillion dollar industry to publicize such things. Moreover, doctors(not all, but most) as it relates to this are indignant and dismissive.I know there is nothing out there in the lit about this, but it is happening. But why should there be when there really isn't any reliable independent oversight or research. Hence, they get misdiagnosed again and put on something else that creates further damage. I have seen you refer to people who have been helped by SSRIs. I don't doubt that. I just worry about those who have been harmed. All the best
> Hi Bruin.
>
> > I know a number of people who have taken one dose and have been ill for months and in some cases years.
>
> This is a startling assertion.
>
> Did you witness these reactions yourself? What was the nature of these illnesses? Can you be more specific? Did this illness present the same way in everyone who experienced this reaction? What were the acute effects, and what were the chronic effects. Were they the same?
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by ed_uk on March 22, 2005, at 9:06:06
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft-Phillipa, posted by bruin on March 22, 2005, at 2:03:40
Hi Briun,
Which drugs have caused symptoms of peripheral neuropathy?
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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