![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lazyeye on April 29, 2004, at 13:24:47
I have been taking .5mg of klonopin for over 5 years for anxiety related to a balance problem. I had no problem with the drug until about 4 1/2 years into it. at that point I could feel my body needing more I would get fuzzy vision,headaches,lightheadedness,an extreme muscle tension. at that point I knew i wanted to get off, so i told my doctor and he said It is such a low dosage that i shouldnt worry . I have since cut my dosage in half and the side effects are worse . muscle spasms,blured vission,no sleep,dizziness,anxiety. it has been 1 month . Any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you
Posted by Anthony Quest on May 2, 2004, at 21:18:22
In reply to klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by lazyeye on April 29, 2004, at 13:24:47
Dear Lazyeye,
I have been on Klonopin for 7 years now. I tried to stop once to and it was awful, even though I too went down gradually, .5 mg then .25 mg and experienced insomnia, muscle aches, etc. I wanted to stop because I didn't like the idea of having to take a medication indefinitely and having to increase my dose however, after 7 years has not increased beyond 2 mg a day.
What you describe in your email is not addiction, and I don't know why you wanted to stop the medicaiton against your doctor's advice. If you were confusing the fact that your original dose wasn't working, that's not the same as being addicted. In itself, it's just an expected outcome of long-term (4 1/2 years in your case) therapy with a drug.Here is just a brief definition of terms
Addiction - Continued use or abuse of a drug despite harm to self.
Abuse - Any non-medical use of a drug or inappropriate use of drug.
Dependence - An expected clinical state in which the body has adapted to the presence of the drug in which the abrupt cessation will result in withdrawal symptoms.
Tolerance - An expected outcome of long-term therapy in which the original dose loses its effectiveness over time.
Tolerane and Dependence are not ADDICTION.
For example, a diabetic will need insulin and is dependent on it. Diabetics may need to increase their insulin doses over time. One could say a diabetic is dependent on insulin and becomes tolerant to the original dose of insulin. However, we don't see a diabetic has become addicted.
Also, a person who takes a high dose of Paxil, is also dependent on the drug. If that person stops Paxil suddenly, the person is going to feel awful and perhaps experience serious problems. That is not addiction either.
It is possible to be addicted to Klonopin, but generally that is characterized by abuse of it first. Did you ever take Klonopin for a situation when it wasn't prescribed, i.e. because it made you feel "high" or because you abused another drug and wanted to "come down" off of it with Klonopin? Those would be examples of abuse, but wouldn't necessarily be addiction, but would become addiction very quickly.
Nothing you wrote indicates addiction except for the way you phrase something "at that point I could feel my body needing more..." A lot of people would think of this a craving and not a statement about decreased efficacy. So be sure there are no addiction or abuse issues involved, if so then that is something you need to get treatment for. If you can't for some reason, then the post should be asking about how to detox and other such stuff, and I will stick with answering as if you are only discussing medical use.
It's pretty rare for someone to start abusing Klonopin at the dosage you mention at 4 1/2 years of use but not impossible. I assume that your not, and all my advice is predicated on that.
There are three possible explanations for your symptoms:1. You are experiencing true withdrawal of benzodiazepines - Given you state .5 mg of Klonopin tapered down to .25 mg I find this really unlikely. I assume this means your total daily dose. If not, withdrawal from Klonopin as with any BENZO is potentially FATAL. Go to the ER if you think you are experiencing acute withdrawal. Again, based on what you wrote, this seems very unlikely. Most docs will have someone discontinue from .5 mg without even bothering to cut down to .25 mg.
(If you were taking other drugs in addition to Klonopin and have stopped those - that could be important to note as well. I assume that's not the case)
2. Longterm Withdrawal -
This is controversial. Basically, some doctors, mine included, as well as myself, believe that those who have taken a drug like Klonopin for a long period of time, ie several years experience a protracted indefinite period of milder withdrawal symptoms. For me, insomnia, irritability, depression, mild spasms, were the main things. They didn't go away and I had slowly tapered down after being at a low dose for two weeks. My physician said that it would go on for perhaps months maybe years. The theory is that the GABA receptors in the brain have been permanently conditioned by the longterm exposure. The symptoms are not the acute withdrawal that most literature talks about. Anyhow, there is no definitive answer to this. The solution is simply go back to Klonopin. The good thing is that Klonopin is safe, non-toxic compared to many other drugs, and beneficial to people long term. If it helped, keep taking it. I did, and many people take it indefinitely. (Had we known this when we started taking thought would we have continued is another question, but we don't get to live life backwards).
3. Your original problem or a new problem is reemerging that Klonopin had been keeping under control. These symptoms were suppressed by Klonopin - you quit the Klonopin, and now you have symptoms. Unless you are cured of the underlying proble, it's no surprise you have symptoms.
Now, if you still want to try to deal with symptoms without returning to Klonopin, you have a few options. One is other drugs to treat the symptoms you have now. I know of a few. Another option is to take another benzodiazepine but not Klonopin, you will some tolerance, but the cross-tolerance will be incomplete. Also, you could try some other things, but that's all for another post.In sum, I can sympathize with how you are feeling. The withdrawal from Klonopin is very yucky and lasts for a long time. I hope other people realize what they might be getting into with drug if they take it for longer than 1 month.
On the plus side, I don't know that there has been anything found wrong with taking it indefinitely. It's a lot safer than many other drugs used to treat similiar conditions, or alcohol for that matter.
Posted by linnie on May 3, 2004, at 12:18:15
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » lazyeye, posted by Anthony Quest on May 2, 2004, at 21:18:22
> Dear Lazyeye,
>
> I have been on Klonopin for 7 years now. I tried to stop once to and it was awful, even though I too went down gradually, .5 mg then .25 mg and experienced insomnia, muscle aches, etc. I wanted to stop because I didn't like the idea of having to take a medication indefinitely and having to increase my dose however, after 7 years has not increased beyond 2 mg a day.
>
>
> What you describe in your email is not addiction, and I don't know why you wanted to stop the medicaiton against your doctor's advice. If you were confusing the fact that your original dose wasn't working, that's not the same as being addicted. In itself, it's just an expected outcome of long-term (4 1/2 years in your case) therapy with a drug.
>
> Here is just a brief definition of terms
>
> Addiction - Continued use or abuse of a drug despite harm to self.
>
> Abuse - Any non-medical use of a drug or inappropriate use of drug.
>
> Dependence - An expected clinical state in which the body has adapted to the presence of the drug in which the abrupt cessation will result in withdrawal symptoms.
>
> Tolerance - An expected outcome of long-term therapy in which the original dose loses its effectiveness over time.
>
> Tolerane and Dependence are not ADDICTION.
>
> For example, a diabetic will need insulin and is dependent on it. Diabetics may need to increase their insulin doses over time. One could say a diabetic is dependent on insulin and becomes tolerant to the original dose of insulin. However, we don't see a diabetic has become addicted.
>
> Also, a person who takes a high dose of Paxil, is also dependent on the drug. If that person stops Paxil suddenly, the person is going to feel awful and perhaps experience serious problems. That is not addiction either.
>
> It is possible to be addicted to Klonopin, but generally that is characterized by abuse of it first. Did you ever take Klonopin for a situation when it wasn't prescribed, i.e. because it made you feel "high" or because you abused another drug and wanted to "come down" off of it with Klonopin? Those would be examples of abuse, but wouldn't necessarily be addiction, but would become addiction very quickly.
>
> Nothing you wrote indicates addiction except for the way you phrase something "at that point I could feel my body needing more..." A lot of people would think of this a craving and not a statement about decreased efficacy. So be sure there are no addiction or abuse issues involved, if so then that is something you need to get treatment for. If you can't for some reason, then the post should be asking about how to detox and other such stuff, and I will stick with answering as if you are only discussing medical use.
>
> It's pretty rare for someone to start abusing Klonopin at the dosage you mention at 4 1/2 years of use but not impossible. I assume that your not, and all my advice is predicated on that.
>
>
> There are three possible explanations for your symptoms:
>
> 1. You are experiencing true withdrawal of benzodiazepines - Given you state .5 mg of Klonopin tapered down to .25 mg I find this really unlikely. I assume this means your total daily dose. If not, withdrawal from Klonopin as with any BENZO is potentially FATAL. Go to the ER if you think you are experiencing acute withdrawal. Again, based on what you wrote, this seems very unlikely. Most docs will have someone discontinue from .5 mg without even bothering to cut down to .25 mg.
>
> (If you were taking other drugs in addition to Klonopin and have stopped those - that could be important to note as well. I assume that's not the case)
>
> 2. Longterm Withdrawal -
>
> This is controversial. Basically, some doctors, mine included, as well as myself, believe that those who have taken a drug like Klonopin for a long period of time, ie several years experience a protracted indefinite period of milder withdrawal symptoms. For me, insomnia, irritability, depression, mild spasms, were the main things. They didn't go away and I had slowly tapered down after being at a low dose for two weeks. My physician said that it would go on for perhaps months maybe years. The theory is that the GABA receptors in the brain have been permanently conditioned by the longterm exposure. The symptoms are not the acute withdrawal that most literature talks about. Anyhow, there is no definitive answer to this. The solution is simply go back to Klonopin. The good thing is that Klonopin is safe, non-toxic compared to many other drugs, and beneficial to people long term. If it helped, keep taking it. I did, and many people take it indefinitely. (Had we known this when we started taking thought would we have continued is another question, but we don't get to live life backwards).
>
> 3. Your original problem or a new problem is reemerging that Klonopin had been keeping under control. These symptoms were suppressed by Klonopin - you quit the Klonopin, and now you have symptoms. Unless you are cured of the underlying proble, it's no surprise you have symptoms.
>
>
> Now, if you still want to try to deal with symptoms without returning to Klonopin, you have a few options. One is other drugs to treat the symptoms you have now. I know of a few. Another option is to take another benzodiazepine but not Klonopin, you will some tolerance, but the cross-tolerance will be incomplete. Also, you could try some other things, but that's all for another post.
>
> In sum, I can sympathize with how you are feeling. The withdrawal from Klonopin is very yucky and lasts for a long time. I hope other people realize what they might be getting into with drug if they take it for longer than 1 month.
>
> On the plus side, I don't know that there has been anything found wrong with taking it indefinitely. It's a lot safer than many other drugs used to treat similiar conditions, or alcohol for that matter.What is klonopin used for anxiety or sleep problems? Can you take klonopin on an as needed basis?
Posted by Anthony Quest on May 3, 2004, at 13:52:55
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by linnie on May 3, 2004, at 12:18:15
Klonopin is a member of the benzodiazepine class of drugs. It's close relatives are Xanax, Valium, Librium, Ativan, Dalmane, Halcion, Restorial, Prosom. Those are all brand names. The generic names all ends in "am"
Klonopin - "clon-azepam
Valium - "di-azepam"
Xanax - "alprazolam"
Ativan - "lorazepam"
Restoril - "temazipam"Note the following: For any drug, go to www.rxlist.com - type in the drug to get information about it.
All of these drugs are marketed for different purposes but they act essentially the same way in the brain. The chief difference is the half-life and duration of action. There is not a lot of data showing that different benzos act on different types of neuroreceptors.
Xanax is marketed for anxiety
Klonopin is marketed as antiseizure drug
Restoril is marketed as a sleep aid
Ativan is used to control seizures.This is purely marketing. The main difference that you should consider is half-life. Xanax with one of the shortest half lifes peaks quickly in the blood and the drop off is attributed to giving some users a "high". This is why Xanax is frequently not the drug of choice and some practitioners never use it, preferring instead Klonopin.
Klonopin's half life is 8-10 hours approximately. Xanax is 2-4. Valium is more 18-24 hours.
So to answer your question all these drugs do the following:
relax muscles
produce somnolence
decrease anxiety
stabilize moodIf you find yourself unable to fall asleep, then taking one of these drugs will produce sleep by calming you down so you won't be anxious or if taken in a more potent dose simply make you to relaxed to stay awake.
For sleep, if you have trouble falling alseep then taking klonopin makes sense since it works throughout the night. For people with periodic limb movement disorder, this is the drug of choice.
If you have anxiety, Klonopin's draw back is that it works for a long time. If your anxiety is transient, you will feel the drug working longer than perhaps you want it to, in which case Xanax is used for it's short duration.
There is debate as to whether Xanax is ever appropriate. Most people with anxiety doctors believe have an underlying cause that should be treated while Xanax only provides symptom relieve.
Note, they can all be taken PRN - but doing so will still lead to dependence.I speak from experience, if these improve your quality of life, it will be hard not to use them when you "need" them to feel better - either to sleep in my case or maybe not to be miserbale with anxiety in yours.
The result is that you should be prepared to take these medications for the rest of your life. I am sure some people have succesfully quit, but after many years of use, the withdrawal can last indefinitely and the anxiety or insomnia will be much much worse. Even so, I would still have chosen to take Klonopin.
If you want to try this PRN, I suggest you get a limited RX with no refills.
There are other better ways to deal with anxiety by the way. The drawback to Klonopin and all the others are there dependence producing potential.
Note I don't say addictive because with the exception of Xanax, it's unusual for people to get high from these drugs. It's not unusual for people to find their lives better and use them for extended periods of time in which they realize their bodies no longer function absent the drug. I recommend alternatives though, see if SSRIs work or perhaps Neurontin.
Neurontin 300 tid po actually worked better for my anxiety than anything else. This drug cannot produce physical dependence any way close to benzos.
Posted by Rianna on May 13, 2004, at 16:20:46
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Anthony Quest on May 3, 2004, at 13:52:55
Great info. I too am suffering from klonopin withdrawal. anxiety panick attacks are worse now then when I went on the Klonopin.
My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
Had it while on 2mg of klonopin then on my taper it got worse.
Does anyone else have this?
Posted by linnie on May 14, 2004, at 9:45:46
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Rianna on May 13, 2004, at 16:20:46
> Great info. I too am suffering from klonopin withdrawal. anxiety panick attacks are worse now then when I went on the Klonopin.
>
> My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
>
> Had it while on 2mg of klonopin then on my taper it got worse.
>
> Does anyone else have this?
Can you explain what "derealization" is to you? Others may have similar feelings.
Posted by Rianna on May 14, 2004, at 10:42:44
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by linnie on May 14, 2004, at 9:45:46
Yes derealization for me is in a dream like state all the time. I feel like i am in a glass container looking out at everything. I know what is real I just can feel it like i use to. It is like being asleep in a dream and can not wake up. It drives me crazy. I try to stay busy but then it gets worse when i try to concentrate to much on something else.
Posted by greenwillow on May 15, 2004, at 19:22:07
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Rianna on May 14, 2004, at 10:42:44
> Yes derealization for me is in a dream like state all the time. I feel like i am in a glass container looking out at everything. I know what is real I just can feel it like i use to. It is like being asleep in a dream and can not wake up. It drives me crazy. I try to stay busy but then it gets worse when i try to concentrate to much on something else.
I would say I am experiencing that too.
Posted by Fred23 on May 23, 2004, at 13:17:04
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Rianna on May 13, 2004, at 16:20:46
> My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
> Does anyone else have this?
I see from another message that you've since gone back to the doctor abut this, but would be curious if during that you you found that alcohol had any effect on the derealization, either while drinking, or after. I'm aware that there are cross-tolerance issues between benzos and alcohol, and have heard that one can help wean off the other.
Posted by Anthony Quest on May 24, 2004, at 4:22:04
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Rianna on May 13, 2004, at 16:20:46
I have never felt derealization as you describe it. I guess the best way to attribute it to tapering off Klonopin would be to take it or another benzo and see if it made the derealization go away. If it did, then you'd know for sure that the cause was discontinuing Klonopin.
Have you tried that? Otherwise it could be dysphoria associated with depression or something equally mundane
> Great info. I too am suffering from klonopin withdrawal. anxiety panick attacks are worse now then when I went on the Klonopin.
>
> My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
>
> Had it while on 2mg of klonopin then on my taper it got worse.
>
> Does anyone else have this?
Posted by Rianna on May 25, 2004, at 8:39:12
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » Rianna, posted by Fred23 on May 23, 2004, at 13:17:04
Yes 2 drinks for me will ease up the derealization but when I drink after it wears off I get very shakey so it really adds to the problem. And I really did use to enjoy a drink now and then :)
Posted by traveler on May 26, 2004, at 16:29:02
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » Fred23, posted by Rianna on May 25, 2004, at 8:39:12
I have just started using Klonopin to help with sleep because Ambien was no longer working for me. I have used Ativan in the past, but not on a daily basis. Am I setting myself up for a horrible withdrawal nightmare using the Klonopin because AMbien doesn't work anymore (maybe from tolerance)? I was using the Ambien for 6 months straight - and then it just quit on me. I also take 15 mg prozac. Is benzo withdrawal (if it should come to that) something that truly lasts a lifetime?
thanks for any info
Posted by Rianna on May 27, 2004, at 16:19:46
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by traveler on May 26, 2004, at 16:29:02
If taken in dosage more than 2mg for a period longer than 6 mos it could take 6 to 18 mos or longer to not have withdrawal. If only being taken for sleep this probably wouldn't be as bad as for panick disorder. It tends to bring on the same symptoms of whatever you were taking it for. I would ask your doctor. Be careful it really is hard to get off of.
Posted by greenwillow on May 28, 2004, at 20:52:07
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by traveler on May 26, 2004, at 16:29:02
> I have just started using Klonopin to help with sleep because Ambien was no longer working for me. I have used Ativan in the past, but not on a daily basis. Am I setting myself up for a horrible withdrawal nightmare using the Klonopin because AMbien doesn't work anymore (maybe from tolerance)? I was using the Ambien for 6 months straight - and then it just quit on me. I also take 15 mg prozac. Is benzo withdrawal (if it should come to that) something that truly lasts a lifetime?
> thanks for any infoLast Oct. my sleep doctor prescribed Klonopin for me for insomnia. It ended up being a very bad experience with the typical withdrawal. Now the sleep doctor has prescribed ambien one night, alternating with sonata the next. Every other night on sonata (every fourth night) I don't sleep the best, but overall the plan is working well for me. There will be a new sleep medication similar to Ambien out in August this year I believe, and another one due later 2005.
Posted by Martha Nygaard on July 1, 2004, at 9:32:03
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by linnie on May 14, 2004, at 9:45:46
> > Great info. I too am suffering from klonopin withdrawal. anxiety panick attacks are worse now then when I went on the Klonopin.
> >
> > My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
> >
> > Had it while on 2mg of klonopin then on my taper it got worse.
> >
> > Does anyone else have this?
>
>
> Can you explain what "derealization" is to you? Others may have similar feelings.Hi,
I'm brand new here and have been withdrawing from Klonopin for a few months because I started to have too many reactions to it. I had been taking it for seizures and was up to 6 mg. a day but am down to a little above 2 mg. now. I take no other meds because I react to all meds now.
My withdrawal sounds very much like your symptoms along with twitching and jerking,
brain storms zapping through my brain, dizziness, nausea, (these are all symptoms listed on the site, http://www.benzo.org.uk/kws.htm, under Klonopin withdrawal symptoms), ravenous hunger, laughing hysterically, trembling and shaking, the derealization that you mention, and about 50 plus other symptoms. This has been like going through hell for me!!!I just wanted to share my story and let you know that I have your symptoms plus more.
oh - I have been taking Klonopin for 16 years - way too long.Thanks,
Martha
Posted by linnie on July 1, 2004, at 10:06:57
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » linnie, posted by Martha Nygaard on July 1, 2004, at 9:32:03
> > >
Martha,Sorry to hear about your anxiety attacks and the derealization. I have not had that but I am well aware of the anxiety. Are you on anyting else?
I am on 10 mgs of lex, went to 15 then back down to 10. It took about 3 months to rid myself of the anxiety and get back to life. I plan to stay on lex as I obviously need this. When I feel a little axiety, I just get busy doing something. Hope this helps.
linnieGreat info. I too am suffering from klonopin withdrawal. anxiety panick attacks are worse now then when I went on the Klonopin.
> > >
> > > My bigest concern is Derealization. I have it 24/7 it never goes away. I have had it for over a year now.
> > >
> > > Had it while on 2mg of klonopin then on my taper it got worse.
> > >
> > > Does anyone else have this?
> >
> >
> > Can you explain what "derealization" is to you? Others may have similar feelings.
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm brand new here and have been withdrawing from Klonopin for a few months because I started to have too many reactions to it. I had been taking it for seizures and was up to 6 mg. a day but am down to a little above 2 mg. now. I take no other meds because I react to all meds now.
>
> My withdrawal sounds very much like your symptoms along with twitching and jerking,
> brain storms zapping through my brain, dizziness, nausea, (these are all symptoms listed on the site, http://www.benzo.org.uk/kws.htm, under Klonopin withdrawal symptoms), ravenous hunger, laughing hysterically, trembling and shaking, the derealization that you mention, and about 50 plus other symptoms. This has been like going through hell for me!!!
>
> I just wanted to share my story and let you know that I have your symptoms plus more.
> oh - I have been taking Klonopin for 16 years - way too long.
>
> Thanks,
> Martha
Posted by Martha Nygaard on July 1, 2004, at 10:30:38
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by linnie on July 1, 2004, at 10:06:57
> Martha,
>
> Sorry to hear about your anxiety attacks and the derealization. I have not had that but I am well aware of the anxiety. Are you on anyting else?
> I am on 10 mgs of lex, went to 15 then back down to 10. It took about 3 months to rid myself of the anxiety and get back to life. I plan to stay on lex as I obviously need this. When I feel a little axiety, I just get busy doing something. Hope this helps.
> linnieHi Linnie and everyone else withdrawing from Klonopin,
What is lex?
I have weaned myself off of Atenolol for hgh BP because I am trying to get off of drugs since they all make me sick. My BP has not gone up either.
The only other med I take is Tylenol (I have to melt it in water and swallow it because I have a narrowed esophagus down to 1/2 inches because of GERDS) and I take it once at night, 1000 mg. and that is it.
The other symptoms of Klonopin with. are the worst for me - dizzines, pain all over, undulating floor, ravenous hunger, laughing hysterically at inappropriate times, (is that part of derealization?), coughing from having too much saliva, nausea, stomach pain, trembling and shaking inside, feeling like bugs are crawling all over me and inside my head - if you went to that website, you'll read all my symptoms.
Thanks for replying and I'm glad that the lex is helping you. I am eager to know what kind of medication that lex is.
Martha
Posted by linnie on July 1, 2004, at 10:42:18
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Martha Nygaard on July 1, 2004, at 10:30:38
Lexapro is an anitdepressant and if you don't need that, you are one of the lucky ones.
>
> > Martha,
> >
> > Sorry to hear about your anxiety attacks and the derealization. I have not had that but I am well aware of the anxiety. Are you on anyting else?
> > I am on 10 mgs of lex, went to 15 then back down to 10. It took about 3 months to rid myself of the anxiety and get back to life. I plan to stay on lex as I obviously need this. When I feel a little axiety, I just get busy doing something. Hope this helps.
> > linnie
>
> Hi Linnie and everyone else withdrawing from Klonopin,
>
> What is lex?
>
> I have weaned myself off of Atenolol for hgh BP because I am trying to get off of drugs since they all make me sick. My BP has not gone up either.
>
> The only other med I take is Tylenol (I have to melt it in water and swallow it because I have a narrowed esophagus down to 1/2 inches because of GERDS) and I take it once at night, 1000 mg. and that is it.
>
> The other symptoms of Klonopin with. are the worst for me - dizzines, pain all over, undulating floor, ravenous hunger, laughing hysterically at inappropriate times, (is that part of derealization?), coughing from having too much saliva, nausea, stomach pain, trembling and shaking inside, feeling like bugs are crawling all over me and inside my head - if you went to that website, you'll read all my symptoms.
>
> Thanks for replying and I'm glad that the lex is helping you. I am eager to know what kind of medication that lex is.
> Martha
>
>
Posted by Rianna on July 2, 2004, at 9:20:41
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by linnie on July 1, 2004, at 10:42:18
> Lexapro is an anitdepressant and if you don't need that, you are one of the lucky ones.
>
> >
> > > Martha,
> > >
> > > Sorry to hear about your anxiety attacks and the derealization. I have not had that but I am well aware of the anxiety. Are you on anyting else?
> > > I am on 10 mgs of lex, went to 15 then back down to 10. It took about 3 months to rid myself of the anxiety and get back to life. I plan to stay on lex as I obviously need this. When I feel a little axiety, I just get busy doing something. Hope this helps.
> > > linnie
> >
> > Hi Linnie and everyone else withdrawing from Klonopin,
> >
> > What is lex?
> >
> > I have weaned myself off of Atenolol for hgh BP because I am trying to get off of drugs since they all make me sick. My BP has not gone up either.
> >
> > The only other med I take is Tylenol (I have to melt it in water and swallow it because I have a narrowed esophagus down to 1/2 inches because of GERDS) and I take it once at night, 1000 mg. and that is it.
> >
> > The other symptoms of Klonopin with. are the worst for me - dizzines, pain all over, undulating floor, ravenous hunger, laughing hysterically at inappropriate times, (is that part of derealization?), coughing from having too much saliva, nausea, stomach pain, trembling and shaking inside, feeling like bugs are crawling all over me and inside my head - if you went to that website, you'll read all my symptoms.
> >
> > Thanks for replying and I'm glad that the lex is helping you. I am eager to know what kind of medication that lex is.
> > Martha
> >
> >
>
>I am on lexapro now too. I was the one that had the derealization for 24/7. I take 20mg. of lex and still have toi take .5 mgs of klonopin. At least I am down to a small amount of the klonopin.
If you were taking the klonopin for seizures, lex probably won't do much. It is an antianxiety like it has already been said.
But, It has been approved for anxiety and is in the waiting to be approved to Panic.
This is what I take it for. I tell you something else that helped me get way low on the klonopin was vitamins, yes vitamins. 1000 of C, 1000 of calcium citrate with magnesium, Multi vitamin, and 500 of B-Complex. This is what my Doctor started me on and it seems to help.
My de-realization comes and goes now instead of 24/7 thank God!
Why not try another anti-seizure med Martha, You may have just reach a tolerance like I did with the Klonopin.
I hope you can find help and welcome! I have found lots of support here. Everyone is great.
Posted by Martha Nygaard on July 2, 2004, at 11:23:19
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Rianna on July 2, 2004, at 9:20:41
> I am on lexapro now too. I was the one that had the derealization for 24/7. I take 20mg. of lex and still have toi take .5 mgs of klonopin. At least I am down to a small amount of the klonopin.
>
> If you were taking the klonopin for seizures, lex probably won't do much. It is an antianxiety like it has already been said.
>
> But, It has been approved for anxiety and is in the waiting to be approved to Panic.
>
> This is what I take it for. I tell you something else that helped me get way low on the klonopin was vitamins, yes vitamins. 1000 of C, 1000 of calcium citrate with magnesium, Multi vitamin, and 500 of B-Complex. This is what my Doctor started me on and it seems to help.
>
> My de-realization comes and goes now instead of 24/7 thank God!
>
> Why not try another anti-seizure med Martha, You may have just reach a tolerance like I did with the Klonopin.
>
> I hope you can find help and welcome! I have found lots of support here. Everyone is great.I want to thank you and everyone for being so supportive and caring. :-) I DO feel welcome here.
I have a problem taking nutrients since my esopaghus has narrowed down to only less than 1/2 inches at the bottom part and I can't swallow pills - haven't been able to since middle of April.
I melt and drink down my Klonopin.
I have tried different anti-seizure meds with disasterous results so no, I can't take another one. Each time I tried a new one, it would make my central nervous system even worse and weirder!!!
Right now I am counting on nothiing but prayer to get me through this and all of my medical problems since I can't have any procedures done (too allergic to the drugs used) to dilate my esophagus and like I said, I am too allergic to try any new medications.
When you went through de-realization, did you feel like you were whirling around all the time,
did you have ravenous hunger all the time even when dizzy, and did you laugh hysterically for no reason? These are some of my symptoms.Thanks so much for your reply!!!
God bless!
Warmly,
Martha
Posted by feelndwn on August 3, 2004, at 12:37:58
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » Rianna, posted by Martha Nygaard on July 2, 2004, at 11:23:19
I have been taking between 1.25-5 mg of xanax for the last 9 years. A little over 3 weeks ago I went into a detox center that detoxed people from benzos such as xanax and other addictive drugs (mainly street drugs). I was in detox for 10 days, during which time I went into a wonderful delirium and psychosis. Oh yay, that was quite a treat for the mind... I had no idea what was going on with my mental and physical state except that I was losing my grip on reality and everything seemed derealized. Finally after spending 10 days in detox with the same symptoms persisting the center wanted to ship me off to a psych ward because they believed it wasn't the xanax withdrawal but a severe mental disorder. I came home for a couple of days and after 6 nights of insomnia, the inability to walk, and hypersensitivity in all of my sensory perceptions I was admitted into a psych ward. There a psych doc immediately recognized my condition as a combination of acute benzodiazapam withdrawal symptoms and placed me back on 30 mg of valium. This was 5 days ago. Within these 5 days of being back on a benzo all of my symptoms have cleared up except for a marked reduction in cognitive/memory impairment which began 9 days ago and some minor tinnitus, and vertigo. I was released yesterday and am now home living with my wife again. My memory is crap and so are my cognitive abilities. I am working with 2 doctors now who hope that in a couple of weeks my body will completely readjust to the valium and my cognitive abilities will return to normal. Hypothetically once I am balanced back on a benzo and all of the withdrawal symptoms are negated (enough) we are going to start a long and slow taper for 12 months in order to allow me to get off of the benzos without any of the hellacious withdrawal symptoms reemerging. And hopefully, the cognitive impairment will at least diminish some.
Xanax was prescribed for me 9 years ago for panick attacks. It worked like a wonder drug for the entire 9 years, although a lot of emotional experiences were blunted during that time. The reason I wanted off of xanax was to face life from a natural perspective without the use of drugs for the 1st time in 9 years, or since the onset of my panick attacks began. I tried this on my own by decreasing my dosage by 1.5 mg per week for 2 weeks before I was out of my league and all of the withdrawal symptoms bloomed and blew up into their full proportions and I went into a detox center under medical supervision.
I didn't think it was such a big deal to stop taking a little blue pill 6 times or so times per day. But dang was I wrong! It turns out that for some people the mind is very plastic, or malleable, and it can readjust within a short period of time back to its normal level of functioning during and sometimes soon after a withdrawal (usually within about 1-3 months). For others, like myself, the brain is not so plastic, and it is has been agreed upon by 4 doctors so far that the abrupt removal of xanax is almost akin to the removal of a functioning portion of the brain itself.
My word of advice for people who are taking xanax and may wish to get off of it is this: DO NOT DISCONTINUE YOUR XANAX OR OTHER BENZO ABRUPTLY, BUT TAPER DOWN OVER A GOOD COURSE OF TIME.
2 months ago I was a full time cook. I was a dependable family man, a musician, and a writer. Now I am on disability, I cannot drive, it is hard to remember yesterday much less things or events 5 hours ago, and doing menial chores around the house is the highlight of my day.
I have 2 hopes.
1-that the valium having alleviated all of my other withdrawal symptoms within only 5 days will also allow my cognitive abilities to return to normal over the course of the next 2 weeks.
2-if that does not work then I hope that during and possibly after I wean/taper myself off of the valium that they will return.I hope that this is some help to those people who read it.
-and by the way, for Martha go with the vitamins and proper nutrition!
here is a totally awesome site (although it is geared more towards alcoholics the diet & nutrition aspects are golden)
I have a degree in nutrition & a minor in chem
HERE IS THE WEB SITE:
http://www.healthrecovery.com
-God bless and let us all hope and pray for one another as we endure.
Posted by Martha Nygaard on August 3, 2004, at 13:20:38
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by feelndwn on August 3, 2004, at 12:37:58
Hi,
I'm going to try to do the valium switch over too since I've done nothing but go downhill quickly on klonopin since I've last posted here. I have every symptom under the sun.
Like you, I am hoping that the valium with work also. How much will you take? I have to take an equivalent of 50 mg. while tapering over and then taper down from 30 mg.
Thanks for the website - I'll look at it.
Keep me updated please on your progress.
God bless,
Martha
Posted by feelndwn on August 6, 2004, at 11:40:18
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing, posted by Martha Nygaard on August 3, 2004, at 13:20:38
Hi Martha, and other benzo withdrawing folk.
To answer your question about the valium, I am on only 30 mg/day. The equivalency of valium for the amount of xanax I was on should be a lot higher. A dosage around 50-60mg. But, I'm going to stick with the 30 mg as is. The reason being is this:
I have implemented a daily vitamin/mineral program, total nutrition make-over, daily 30 minute exercise routine (of light pilates, or light intensity yoga, and walking at least a quarter mile usually around sunset...ahh what a pleasure even when derealized :) by the way, who knows how long you'll get this derealized sensation for so you might as well enjoy it, and besides have you meditated in a derealized state yet? wow, you can really get deep, your emotions are still hidden, but you can feel wonderful if you focus on something Powerful, Potent, and Positive:
like vast oceans, the eternity of time and all the beautiful wonders that have unfolded within it, the harmony of all nature, and with heightened sensory perception you really can appreciate it, the fantastic and barely imaginable heavens above glittered with starlight, the awe-inspiring immensity of the universe and within it our little solar system, or planet, our place in space time to live...no matter what state we may live it in...and who knows the what kind of incredible ideas and patterns of thought may be lurking within the derealized mind...if you have novel ideas while within this state that you could not possibly encounter outside of it, then delve into them, study them, bring them forth to mankind, or to those who are worthy like others in our plight), meditation with candles, flowers, music, light, non-caffinated teas, insense, massage and anything and everything else that brings in a feeling of white light or good energy/vibes, 2 liters of filtered water per day, and whole hell of a lot of positive thinking.
Also, I take either 2.5mg of zyprexa (you can break this in half if it is too much, so that would be 1.25 mg)per night for sleep or 75 mg of trazadone depending on how I want to feel the next day. I only take one or the other, never both in the same night for sleep. They both have their own residual effects the morning after and that is how I determine which to take. But oh well!, they both help me get in 7-8 hours of sleep, and from the way my body has been reacting (hypomanic to say the least!) I don't think my insomnia is going to go away for a long time to come. Dang benzos.
If I were you I would read
Dr. Weil's 8 Weeks to Optimum Health within the next couple of days. And if you were like me a couple weeks ago have someone read it for you, or to you.
From 3 weeks being admitted to a psych ward on a 5150, I am now at least 80% better! That is awesome. My vertigo is now gone too. Yeah!
If you want I can give you my current vitamin/mineral routine. But for now remember to drink 2 liters of water/day, eat fish 4 times a week, eat 5 fruits/vegetables per day, get on that valium now! and know that your body is recalibrating back to its original state no matter what you might be doing at this current moment in time to think otherwise, or to try and stop it.
Everything that I have now read indicates that the derealization & depersonalization will go even if it takes years.
One other thing: join this group of individuals who are all going through this together with you and I as well: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/benzo/
God bless, God speed, and have a great day everyone.
This is the end of the thread.
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