Posted by linnie on May 3, 2004, at 12:18:15
In reply to Re: klonopin help with withdrawing » lazyeye, posted by Anthony Quest on May 2, 2004, at 21:18:22
> Dear Lazyeye,
>
> I have been on Klonopin for 7 years now. I tried to stop once to and it was awful, even though I too went down gradually, .5 mg then .25 mg and experienced insomnia, muscle aches, etc. I wanted to stop because I didn't like the idea of having to take a medication indefinitely and having to increase my dose however, after 7 years has not increased beyond 2 mg a day.
>
>
> What you describe in your email is not addiction, and I don't know why you wanted to stop the medicaiton against your doctor's advice. If you were confusing the fact that your original dose wasn't working, that's not the same as being addicted. In itself, it's just an expected outcome of long-term (4 1/2 years in your case) therapy with a drug.
>
> Here is just a brief definition of terms
>
> Addiction - Continued use or abuse of a drug despite harm to self.
>
> Abuse - Any non-medical use of a drug or inappropriate use of drug.
>
> Dependence - An expected clinical state in which the body has adapted to the presence of the drug in which the abrupt cessation will result in withdrawal symptoms.
>
> Tolerance - An expected outcome of long-term therapy in which the original dose loses its effectiveness over time.
>
> Tolerane and Dependence are not ADDICTION.
>
> For example, a diabetic will need insulin and is dependent on it. Diabetics may need to increase their insulin doses over time. One could say a diabetic is dependent on insulin and becomes tolerant to the original dose of insulin. However, we don't see a diabetic has become addicted.
>
> Also, a person who takes a high dose of Paxil, is also dependent on the drug. If that person stops Paxil suddenly, the person is going to feel awful and perhaps experience serious problems. That is not addiction either.
>
> It is possible to be addicted to Klonopin, but generally that is characterized by abuse of it first. Did you ever take Klonopin for a situation when it wasn't prescribed, i.e. because it made you feel "high" or because you abused another drug and wanted to "come down" off of it with Klonopin? Those would be examples of abuse, but wouldn't necessarily be addiction, but would become addiction very quickly.
>
> Nothing you wrote indicates addiction except for the way you phrase something "at that point I could feel my body needing more..." A lot of people would think of this a craving and not a statement about decreased efficacy. So be sure there are no addiction or abuse issues involved, if so then that is something you need to get treatment for. If you can't for some reason, then the post should be asking about how to detox and other such stuff, and I will stick with answering as if you are only discussing medical use.
>
> It's pretty rare for someone to start abusing Klonopin at the dosage you mention at 4 1/2 years of use but not impossible. I assume that your not, and all my advice is predicated on that.
>
>
> There are three possible explanations for your symptoms:
>
> 1. You are experiencing true withdrawal of benzodiazepines - Given you state .5 mg of Klonopin tapered down to .25 mg I find this really unlikely. I assume this means your total daily dose. If not, withdrawal from Klonopin as with any BENZO is potentially FATAL. Go to the ER if you think you are experiencing acute withdrawal. Again, based on what you wrote, this seems very unlikely. Most docs will have someone discontinue from .5 mg without even bothering to cut down to .25 mg.
>
> (If you were taking other drugs in addition to Klonopin and have stopped those - that could be important to note as well. I assume that's not the case)
>
> 2. Longterm Withdrawal -
>
> This is controversial. Basically, some doctors, mine included, as well as myself, believe that those who have taken a drug like Klonopin for a long period of time, ie several years experience a protracted indefinite period of milder withdrawal symptoms. For me, insomnia, irritability, depression, mild spasms, were the main things. They didn't go away and I had slowly tapered down after being at a low dose for two weeks. My physician said that it would go on for perhaps months maybe years. The theory is that the GABA receptors in the brain have been permanently conditioned by the longterm exposure. The symptoms are not the acute withdrawal that most literature talks about. Anyhow, there is no definitive answer to this. The solution is simply go back to Klonopin. The good thing is that Klonopin is safe, non-toxic compared to many other drugs, and beneficial to people long term. If it helped, keep taking it. I did, and many people take it indefinitely. (Had we known this when we started taking thought would we have continued is another question, but we don't get to live life backwards).
>
> 3. Your original problem or a new problem is reemerging that Klonopin had been keeping under control. These symptoms were suppressed by Klonopin - you quit the Klonopin, and now you have symptoms. Unless you are cured of the underlying proble, it's no surprise you have symptoms.
>
>
> Now, if you still want to try to deal with symptoms without returning to Klonopin, you have a few options. One is other drugs to treat the symptoms you have now. I know of a few. Another option is to take another benzodiazepine but not Klonopin, you will some tolerance, but the cross-tolerance will be incomplete. Also, you could try some other things, but that's all for another post.
>
> In sum, I can sympathize with how you are feeling. The withdrawal from Klonopin is very yucky and lasts for a long time. I hope other people realize what they might be getting into with drug if they take it for longer than 1 month.
>
> On the plus side, I don't know that there has been anything found wrong with taking it indefinitely. It's a lot safer than many other drugs used to treat similiar conditions, or alcohol for that matter.What is klonopin used for anxiety or sleep problems? Can you take klonopin on an as needed basis?
poster:linnie
thread:341361
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20040409/msgs/342836.html