![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by squids on December 5, 2003, at 18:03:02
My Dr. told me something like 60% of untreated adults with ADD turn to substance abuse eventually. My personal experience, sadly, was exactly the case.
I have the type 2 ADD, inattentive type (I am prone to daydreaming and "spacing out"); this type was only recently recognized and put in textbooks. It didn't exist when I was a kid growing up. Because I was not hyperactive nor causing trouble in school, I was never diagnosed with ADD; just labelled as shy, introverted, and a dreamer.
Later on I was diagnosed with depression and put on all sorts of meds for that: imipramine, prozac, wellbutrin, zoloft, etc. These meds did help out my emotional lows and improved my concentration a little bit. I did make it through college and got a good job in the computer industry. But, as I got older, the ADD became worse. It grew more and more difficult to concentrate or keep my attention on something. I could not keep organized (everything went on the floor - my "flat file"), be on time, or finish doing anything.
It got to the point where I couldn't pay bills, get my work done, or do any of the "normal" things in life we take for granted. I didn't know what was happening, I though I was just losing it.
At some point I turned to substance abuse(stimulants and opiates). Exactly why I'm not quite sure. Partly to escape the frustration of having one's thinking turn to mush. Partly because I thought I could function better on them (which was true at first, but it gradually went downhill). Partly because I liked the stuff (possibly I have some biological predisposition towards addiction). Whatever...
As my use and addiction grew, everything in life began to collapse until I wound up more or less broke and homeless. I eventually went to a rehab program and have been clean for about 4 months now. And my concentration still sucks. I getr totally distracted by any little thing and cannot focus on tasks.
My doctor, fully aware of my substance abuse history, thinks I should take psychostimulants - ritalin or similar. He believes it will keep me from relapsing into worse addiction. I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar experience, and can comment on either positive or negative experiences of taking ritalin for ADD after a period of heavy substance abuse.
Thanks,
Posted by TRACYANDDEANA on December 5, 2003, at 19:44:46
In reply to Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by squids on December 5, 2003, at 18:03:02
HI,
MY HISTORY IS ONE VERY SIMILAR TO YOURS; ALTHOUGH, MY EXPERIANCE WITH THE REHABS AND DRUGS ARE LONG GONE. I HAVE BEEN TREATED FOR ADD/ADHD
FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS NOW. THE DRUG THAT I TAKE IS ADDERALL. IT WAS WONDERFUL THE FIRST 4 YEARS. IT OPENED MANY DOORS TO THINGS THAT I WAS NOT AWEAR OF BEFORE. (I GUESS I WAS GOING TO FAST TO REALIZE THINGS)
WELL LIKE I SAID EVERYTHING WAS FINE UNTIL ABOUT 6 MONTHS AGO. I FIND MYSELF UNABLE TO CONCENTRATE,
KIND OF DEPRESSED, AND FEELING REALLY WIERD. I FEEL LIKE MY PERSONALITY IS GONE. I FEEL LIKE I DONT KNOW WHO I AM ANY MORE. ITS LIKE I AM SO AWEAR OF MY DRUG INDUCED STATE THAT I CANT EVEN SOCIALIZE RIGHT. IT IS LIKE MY BRAIN IS IN A CLOUD.
WELL THIS HAS PROBABLY NOT HELPED YOU, BUT IT FEELS GOOD WRITING ALL OF THIS DOWN. I REALLY DO NEED SOMEONE TO TALK TO WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT I AM GOING THROUGH. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BATTLE, I WISH YOU WELL!
Posted by squids on December 6, 2003, at 17:51:38
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by TRACYANDDEANA on December 5, 2003, at 19:44:46
> HI,
> MY HISTORY IS ONE VERY SIMILAR TO YOURS; ALTHOUGH, MY EXPERIANCE WITH THE REHABS AND DRUGS ARE LONG GONE. I HAVE BEEN TREATED FOR ADD/ADHD
> FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS NOW. THE DRUG THAT I TAKE IS ADDERALL. IT WAS WONDERFUL THE FIRST 4 YEARS. IT OPENED MANY DOORS TO THINGS THAT I WAS NOT AWEAR OF BEFORE. (I GUESS I WAS GOING TO FAST TO REALIZE THINGS)
> WELL LIKE I SAID EVERYTHING WAS FINE UNTIL ABOUT 6 MONTHS AGO. I FIND MYSELF UNABLE TO CONCENTRATE,
> KIND OF DEPRESSED, AND FEELING REALLY WIERD. I FEEL LIKE MY PERSONALITY IS GONE. I FEEL LIKE I DONT KNOW WHO I AM ANY MORE. ITS LIKE I AM SO AWEAR OF MY DRUG INDUCED STATE THAT I CANT EVEN SOCIALIZE RIGHT. IT IS LIKE MY BRAIN IS IN A CLOUD.If you don't mind me asking:
Have you been taking the adderall continuously or do you take "drug holidays" on weekends and vacation days? Maybe you built up tolerance to the adderall and it's not effective anymore...I'm not to start ritalin until after the new year
and I really want to minimize the use of it, only on work days or when I really need to concentrate on something, for instance say taxes.That probably sounds ironic coming from an addict. I've done a lot of methamphetamine and built up a huge tolerance after daily use. True, I was using large quantities. Maybe I'm just trying to be cautious.
Posted by FlintCassidy on December 10, 2003, at 6:02:53
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse » TRACYANDDEANA, posted by squids on December 6, 2003, at 17:51:38
Squids, I had a childhood much like yours. I never thought anybody experienced the same kind of daydreaming/non-regular-ADD thought pattern as me. I have always been a MAJOR daydreamer. All through school I would become very bored with the subject matter (unless of course it was tech or soemthing similiar) and would begin to space out. I never had a problem sitting still or keeping attention as long as the content was somewhat interesting. I was never officially diagnosed as ADD, but always thought that some part of the disorder might be true for me. At the age of 14 I discovered self-medication, and finally felt happy about myself, until of course the drugs and booze stopped working. I have always been my own worst enemy. I thrive on others validation, but only recently became aware of the exact degree to which this validation drives my daily life. At 16, I joined the ranks of the sober crowd, and remained so until approximately 6 months ago. Since then I have tried every drug I could get my hands on. There have been many good times, and a few VERY BAD times. I don't think this post has been very helpful for you, so I guess what I am saying is that YOUR post has given me some sort of consolation that I am not alone in this crazy world. I am a professional internet programmer and have no desires in destroying my life. I am generally okay these days, and believe that I do not have to become sober again in order to be a successful, well balanced individual. However, I do believe that this other form of ADD, or the low self esteem issue at least, should be given some focus. Thank you for your honesty and desire to help yourself.
Posted by Festus on December 18, 2003, at 22:26:29
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by FlintCassidy on December 10, 2003, at 6:02:53
One of the worst things about being ADD and going through childhood un-diagnosed,is the feeling you have growing up,thinking you are "bad"or"Don,t mind well".The teachers at school told me and my parents,I was that way.I,d always have bad conduct marks on my report card,which lead to bad marks on me!(courtesy of my Dad and his belt).When you grow up like that,you feel like a weirdo or a convict,or a rebel.You know deep down ,you don,t"think"you,re a "Bad Kid",but you just ain,t sure,cause you,re still just a kid!After you grow up and try Drugs and Drink,get into trouble with the law,and all that stuff,it,s like you,re trying to live like you,ve been told what you are:Bad,Naughty,a Rebel.Finally,somewhere along the road,if you are lucky,a good doctor will finally intervene and suggest tests and the results come back and they talk to you and,Guess what,Mom and Dad and all the Teachers and everyone else:I got a Disorder!I,m just a bit mentally out-of-synch!There,s this medicine they give you and,Kabam!!You finally see the world and,most importantly,YOURSELF for what you REALLY ARE!Just a grown kid that nobody could understand cause they needed medicine.It sure made me feel better about things,after going through 30 years of all that crap,and then find out I just needed some medicine.That,s the problem,though it,s a huge relief,you now find that in order to feel normal,you must take carefully prescribed doses of highly addictive pills without getting"in trouble",shall we say,so,that brings us to a decision:Can we take the meds right,or not?The true Acid Test.I find if I take my Dexedrine 3 weeks on and 1 week off,that works as good as I can get it.I,ve been successful for several years,and have not really gotten a tolerance or "addictive feeling",I call it,but the 1 week breaks the cycle(for me,anyway).I,ll take 3 good ones for 1 "so-so"one in order to maintain a decent level of well-being.It sure beats 4 weeks a month of the other way of life.Happy Holiday,Folks!Festus
Posted by squids on December 19, 2003, at 0:56:32
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by Festus on December 18, 2003, at 22:26:29
Yeah I can relate to that. I always was told I didn't work up to my potential and didn't have any ambition. I was criticized constantly for not being "normal". 30 years of that does wonders for my self esteem. I used to be pretty outgoing and friendly. Now I'm a shy introvert, very uncomfortable around people I don't know well. Even though I have achieved quite a lot, I always feel like I haven't done anything worthy and really have a self esteem problem.
Finally getting the ADD diagnosis was a godsend. Suddenly all those things I never understood started making sense. It was an epiphany - "oh that's why I have always been like that" not some chararacter flaw. However years of that has conditioned me to behave in my old ways and changing these will be difficult. My doctor wants me to get an ADD coach to help overcome those habits.
I have finally started on ritalin (even though my doctor knows my addiction history) and it is wonderful. I don't get high from it at all, but my concentration is 1000% better than before. I do have to watch myself and keep taking it according to prescription - the drug abuse factor is always lurking in the background. I did have to try taking a large dose once, but didn't get high, only really jumpy and nervous. So that pretty much solves that. Taken as prescribed works wonders for me. I have no desire to return to my old addictive behavior.
I also have social anxiety and take klonopin for it. Another wonderful med that does wonders for allowing me to function around other people without the self-conscious anxiety. It's in the same class a valium and xanax, but supposed to have much lower abuse/addiction potential. I'm happy with it. I remember a few years back I was taking 3 xanax a day and the withdrawals when I stopped were extremely unpleasant.
The ritalin/klonopin cocktail seems to work for me. I have no urge to return to street drugs, but I am highly funtional like never before. Psych therapy and an ADD coach should improve things further. Maybe I can actually get my life back together...
My only regret is that I wasn't diagnosed much earlier. So many self destructive years wasted in the past.
Apparently many practicioners don't think adult ADD really exists or don't understand it well. I got realy lucky in finding a pdoc who specializes in adult ADD - that's after bouncing around some 10 pdocs who had no clue since I was 17.
It's only been a week on the ritalin and klonopin, but I have very high hopes for the future.
Best of luck
Posted by TRACYANDDEANA on December 19, 2003, at 11:02:18
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by Festus on December 18, 2003, at 22:26:29
What if you have never taken breaks with your medication? When I do not have my medication I am grumpy, I cannot stay awake, and I do not feel like doing anything. How do you break that cycle with out pulling your hair out when you dont have your medication? How do you get back to feeling like I did 4 years ago when Adderall did so many good things for me? I almost feel like it is making me a little wierd! Do you know what I mean?
Posted by Festus on December 19, 2003, at 23:55:24
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by TRACYANDDEANA on December 19, 2003, at 11:02:18
Hey,Squids,I,m hearin what you,re sayin!Seems like we both went down the same road.The thing about ADD/ADHD that some don,t realize,is that if you have it,you,ve had it since you was little,it just went un-diagnosed,like mine and soooo many others!That,s where the term"Adult ADD"comes from,it,s those of us that did,nt get diagnosed till we were grown!It does make you wonder where you might have gotten if they,d just caught it when you were in school,tryin so hard to learn,feelin so screwy cause you could,nt seem to "catch on" to stuff like the others.Don,t let it get you down,stay focused on the positive aspect of reality.You ARE being treated now,and you can make up what you missed,if you want it bad enough!A few months after I started my meds and got"re-adjusted" to life,I wasted no time!I made up my mind that I done wasted all the time I needed to(or not to), already!After goin from job to job all them years,I decided what I was gonna be and went for it!3 years of study,practice,classes,etc.and,now I,m a Fitness Professional,Personal Trainer,and Corporate Fitness Consultant.I get paid to do what I love!That,s what we all call"the American Dream",and you,ll get your shot now,Squids!I know you won,t waste it.Take Care,Festus.
Posted by Angielala on January 15, 2004, at 13:59:39
In reply to Re: Adult ADD and drug abuse, posted by FlintCassidy on December 10, 2003, at 6:02:53
Wow- you just explained a group of three friends.
they were all diagnosed later- because they weren't causing trouble ans such- all the ADD2 symptoms- but later on in their mid 20s everything seemed to be getting worse for them- in different ways. One friend could NOT have a conversation about one subject for more than I'd say on average- 5 minutes. Another was more of could not for the life of her follow a routine, couldn't pay bill son time and such. The third was sort of mixed- it seemed that the older he got (I have watched these three for 4-6 years go through all this) the more aggitated and ADHD he got.
They all ended up on Concerta (ritalin) I can't even tell you the success they each of them has gone through. Two of them had quick respnses and totally felt a difference. They were actualyl calm and steady THINKING- they were amazed with themselves that they could concentrate SO well. My friend that turned more ADHD needed a higher dose- but the improvement in him has been wonderful to watch too. Now they put their energies into some really great things- two of them throw a music festival together and the other has started his own practice in muscle therapy. The biggest thing I could see is that they finally had control over daydreaming. And the weirdest part was that they could all sleep well for the first time... depsite taking a stimulant.
Now I must mention, the ADHD and one of the ADD2 friends were substance users. The drugs ranged from pot, coke, speed, Xanax, crystal meth... it was a large range, as where I live you can get your paws on anything. While I can't say that both of them stopped the pot (they still occassionally have some at a party, but nothing like before) they have not felt the need for anything that they craved before (mostly cocaine). I remember asking one of them if it was because they know they shouldn't, and they answered, "I just never feel the impulse, or the need for it, because I feel good now"
It was great to see three friends battle this with ritalin. I know that not everything works for everybody, but if your doc is mentioning ritalin, think about it. Do some research about it online. Post in http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/ and ask what people what they have gone through with ritalin and going with no meds- see what they say. Once you've heard some true-life experiences, you may feel more comfortable knowing that a large amount of adults have to deal with what you are, and that there is so much hope at the end of the tunnel.
> Squids, I had a childhood much like yours. I never thought anybody experienced the same kind of daydreaming/non-regular-ADD thought pattern as me. I have always been a MAJOR daydreamer. All through school I would become very bored with the subject matter (unless of course it was tech or soemthing similiar) and would begin to space out. I never had a problem sitting still or keeping attention as long as the content was somewhat interesting. I was never officially diagnosed as ADD, but always thought that some part of the disorder might be true for me. At the age of 14 I discovered self-medication, and finally felt happy about myself, until of course the drugs and booze stopped working. I have always been my own worst enemy. I thrive on others validation, but only recently became aware of the exact degree to which this validation drives my daily life. At 16, I joined the ranks of the sober crowd, and remained so until approximately 6 months ago. Since then I have tried every drug I could get my hands on. There have been many good times, and a few VERY BAD times. I don't think this post has been very helpful for you, so I guess what I am saying is that YOUR post has given me some sort of consolation that I am not alone in this crazy world. I am a professional internet programmer and have no desires in destroying my life. I am generally okay these days, and believe that I do not have to become sober again in order to be a successful, well balanced individual. However, I do believe that this other form of ADD, or the low self esteem issue at least, should be given some focus. Thank you for your honesty and desire to help yourself.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Substance Use | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.