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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
I'm sure this belongs on some other board, but right now I really don't care.
I was cleaning out my purse earlier this evening, and I found a flyer that was handed to me a few weeks ago at an outdoor concert I attended (my town has free concerts every week in the summer time).
I am used to people handing out all kinds of flyers at these events, so I never really looked closely at it.
Well, this evening I did get a close look at it. It was a flyer for a memorial service/benefit concert for a young man who died - and I knew him.
I had heard weeks ago that a boy drowned in the lake, but I didn't know who - never got the details. It was him.
When I realized who it was on the flyer, I started to cry, uncontrollably. He was not a best friend, but I knew him. We hung out a few times. We went to the same concerts, parties. He was a good kid, and I liked him.
I felt horrible for not looking at that flyer when it was handed to me. I could have gone to his memorial service. I could have donated some money for the funeral expenses at the benefit concert.
I still feel horrible. It's just such a shock. Part of me is saying - why are you so upset? I barely knew him. Then the other half is saying - someone I know has died, and I will never see him again. He was 21, 2 years younger than I am. He died last month, and I didn't even know until now. I feel awful.
Posted by wildcardII on July 30, 2006, at 2:46:01
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
Posted by rainbutterfly on July 30, 2006, at 5:33:31
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
Posted by TexasChic on July 30, 2006, at 10:38:47
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
You can't blame yourself for the innocent actions you make in life. You're not psychic, you can never know the consequences of one action or another. I would be sad too, but don't feel guilty. When I'm in a situation like this I try to think, well, if I had done this differently, it could have led to something much more tramatic happening. The way it played out was how it was meant to be.
Have you ever seen "Butterfly Effect" with Ashton Kutcher? It explains this theory really well.
-T
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2006, at 11:58:34
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep... » cloudydaze, posted by TexasChic on July 30, 2006, at 10:38:47
I'm sorry please don't feel guilty. If you hadn't been at the concert you wouldn't even know. Enough time has gone by you did say a month right. You could call his parents find out where he's buried and leave some flowers on his grave site. That's only a suggestion. Love Phillipa
Posted by Kath on July 30, 2006, at 15:43:17
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
AWW Cloudy (((((((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))
So sorry. Maybe the closeness in age also hit you hard in a certain way.
Please be really gentle with yourself.
Luv, Kath
Posted by Jay on July 30, 2006, at 16:34:32
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
C-D, I've been trying to think how I can still best help out in this forum, as a LOT of people gave their time for me. Let me say, I *clearly* can see the connection between this lost friend and yourself. I've been snooping around looking for some bigger answers on the whole depression thing, and something I came across is that depression and grief look (and pretty much are in a way) exactly the same. And, it is often hard to seperate the two, unless you go by the medical terms of "length of illness"...etc. Like, if you lost someone 1 month ago, and are depressed, they will put you in the clinical "grief" catagory. If it is 5 years after you lost someone, then maybe you will end up in the "depression" catagory. Sorry for the length...but maybe your depression and grief are being molded together, and the hurt is even more intense.
Anyhow...regardless....if this goes on..bring it up with your pdoc or doc or therapist, etc.
Best,
Jay
Posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 17:11:58
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep... » cloudydaze, posted by TexasChic on July 30, 2006, at 10:38:47
> You can't blame yourself for the innocent actions you make in life. You're not psychic, you can never know the consequences of one action or another. I would be sad too, but don't feel guilty. When I'm in a situation like this I try to think, well, if I had done this differently, it could have led to something much more tramatic happening. The way it played out was how it was meant to be.
>
> Have you ever seen "Butterfly Effect" with Ashton Kutcher? It explains this theory really well.
>
> -TYeah, now that I've had more time to think about it, there was really nothing I could have done to alter the outcome.
I loved the Butterfly effect - it made me cry though. I own the movie, but have only watched it once. It's powerful.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 17:37:11
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep... » cloudydaze, posted by Jay on July 30, 2006, at 16:34:32
> C-D, I've been trying to think how I can still best help out in this forum, as a LOT of people gave their time for me. Let me say, I *clearly* can see the connection between this lost friend and yourself. I've been snooping around looking for some bigger answers on the whole depression thing, and something I came across is that depression and grief look (and pretty much are in a way) exactly the same. And, it is often hard to seperate the two, unless you go by the medical terms of "length of illness"...etc. Like, if you lost someone 1 month ago, and are depressed, they will put you in the clinical "grief" catagory. If it is 5 years after you lost someone, then maybe you will end up in the "depression" catagory. Sorry for the length...but maybe your depression and grief are being molded together, and the hurt is even more intense.
>
> Anyhow...regardless....if this goes on..bring it up with your pdoc or doc or therapist, etc.
>
> Best,
> JayUnfortunately I do not currently have a therapist or psychiatrist. I need to probably think about getting a new doc or two - was unsatisfied with my last psychiatrist.
Thank you for your support, it is appreciated (that goes for everyone...thanks a lot).
Yes, my grief is most likely heightened by my mental illness (which happens to be bipolar). I remember when I was in grade school (4th or 5th?) and a boy in the other class died. I barely new him, but I cried for a long time. I have always been very sensitive to these sorts of things. I stopped watching the news altogether because it made me upset.
I don't know about grief being the same as depression though - I don't know a whole lot about the grieving proccess, so i looked it up.
The grieving process:
1. Denial or Shock
2. Bargaining
3. Guilt
4. Depression (depressive symptoms)
5. Anger
6. AcceptanceIt says this under bargaining:
"At times, individuals may ruminate about what could have been done to prevent the loss.
Individuals can become preoccupied about ways that things could have been better, imagining all the things that will never be.
This reaction can provide insight into the impact of the loss; however, if not properly resolved, intense feelings of remorse or guilt may hinder the healing process."http://www.uiowa.edu/~ucs/griefloss.html
I think this sums up what I was feeling when I posted...
Posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 17:43:38
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep... » cloudydaze, posted by Kath on July 30, 2006, at 15:43:17
> AWW Cloudy (((((((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))
>
> So sorry. Maybe the closeness in age also hit you hard in a certain way.
>
> Please be really gentle with yourself.
>
> Luv, Kaththanks Kath :)
I think the age factor did bother me a bit, and the fact that his death could have been prevented if his friends were paying attention and using good judgement. They left (in their boat) the place where he disappeared. Apparently they told police they thought he swam to shore. If they had just stayed there and looked for him or called for help he might have been rescued in time. I think that they were afraid of getting in trouble. It's really sad. Alcohol causes a lot of problems around here.
There have been 3 drownings this summer, in that lake alone. Can't say if all of them were alcohol related, but they probably were.
Alcohol + swimming = not a good idea.
Posted by llrrrpp on July 30, 2006, at 22:39:23
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 17:43:38
((((cloudy))))
It's really hard when the people we went to high school with have this kind of tragic accident. It doesn't make any sense, and it seems like life is so fragile and unpredictible.
You can give your buddy a special place in your heart, and feel sad that you missed his service, but Phillipa's right-- it's just sheer chance that you even happened to look through the fliers before you tossed them out. There is absolutely no sense in layering guilt on top of grief and sadness.
You can still make a donation to his charity cause, and light a candle for him, write a story about what his life taught you. Saying goodbye should be personal. Don't feel guilty because you weren't able to make it to the big service. You can say goodbye in your own way, in your own time.
hugs, hope you sleep alright tonight ((CD))
-ll
Hope you feel better soon
Posted by Kath on July 31, 2006, at 9:01:36
In reply to Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 1:54:19
One more thing that you mentioned in your original post.... if (and only if) you DO want to give something towards the funeral costs, you could always send a little card to the parents with something in it & some kind words.
Any time I've had someone close die, it's meant a lot to me to receive acknowledgement later on - not right at the time when I'm inundated with kind words, caring, etc. There can be a huge empty space afterwards when there isn't as much focus on it.
It sounds like you're not feeling as badly. Hope that improves daily.
hugs, Kath
Posted by cloudydaze on August 2, 2006, at 17:37:14
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep... » cloudydaze, posted by Kath on July 31, 2006, at 9:01:36
That you everyone, I'm doing better.
Trying not to dwell. It was a very unfortunate accident.
I've actually thought about putting together some non-alcoholic event/party, in his memory, and others who have died in alcohol related accidents.
Link to the news article about his death:
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?s=4991798He died on june 5th - he would have turned 21 later that month.
Make me think how lucky I am to be still alive after doing so many stupid things when I was younger.
A few days ago, I heard that another friend of mine (somone I am closer to than the kid who drowned) almost died of alcohol poisoning! My brother had to call an ambulence for him, but by the time they got there, he was regaining consciousness and refused to go to the hospital! If he would have died, I'd have lost it completely.
I'd like to promote alcohol free events in general. So many people around here think that alcohol is required for having a good time...and many of these people ARE underage. It comes from living in a college town maybe?
Posted by Kath on August 2, 2006, at 21:43:54
In reply to Re: Upset, can't sleep..., posted by cloudydaze on August 2, 2006, at 17:37:14
What a good idea about promoting alcohol-free events.
I think that's just the greatest idea & what a nice way to remember people who've died as a result of alcohol.
Have you heard the Kim Mitchell song:
"might as well go for a soda
nobody hurts nobody liesmight as well go for a soda
nobody drowns nobody dies"Words like that. It's a GREAT song!!
I suspect that it might have been written as a result of something tragic happening to someone they knew.
Take care,
Kath
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