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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 17:14:26
I've only had the internet here at home for 6 weeks or so. I always thought of all the things I would do if I had it. Look up music info. Talk to like minded people (which I do here), but about movies and music and kung-fu or whatever.
Here's the weird part. (honestly, some of the discussion about civility got me thinking about this, but don't turn away yet) There are some people on the net who have been following each other around and harrassing back and forth for many years. They have whole web sites devoted to their hatred of some other person.
It feels to me that they may have some problems, I can't tell. (very civily handled I must say).
The question is where does it put me - to search them out and laugh at their insults. Will I outgrow this behavior? Have any of you wasted your time like this? (not engaging, just watching)
James k
Posted by crazy teresa on January 19, 2006, at 17:59:19
In reply to internet weirdness, posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 17:14:26
Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 19:41:20
In reply to internet weirdness, posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 17:14:26
> There are some people on the net who have been following each other around and harrassing back and forth for many years. They have whole web sites devoted to their hatred of some other person.
Yeah. I don't condone expressions of hatred / malevolence. Thus... I don't frequent those kinds of sites. It is kind of like how I don't condone Paris Hiltons lifestyle choices etc and thus... I don't watch her TV show.
I don't think it is about self-righteousness so much as it is about reflecting on the idea that what comes in... Is more likely to come back out.
If you spend a lot of time around people who express hatred then you are more likely to come to view it as acceptable / act in kind.
And...
I don't want to be like that.
If I get too much of it then I end up feeling badly about the world too. Badly about human nature and the ability that people have to turn on you. The ability people have to be so consumed by hatred as to devote so much of their life serving its cause.
I had enough hatred directed my way when I was a kid. I'm out of that situation now and I would never volountarily put myself into that situation or condone another person putting themselves in that situation.
There is good in the world...
I think it is better to seek that out.
Just my 2 cents...
Posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 19:54:54
In reply to Re: internet weirdness » James K, posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 19:41:20
Yeah, I think I know where you are coming from. There have been times in my life where I sought out the most extreme and ugly things. Italian slasher movies, underground literature, japanese horror, hate-based punk rock.
I think I was trying to desensitize myself to anything affecting me. It started to come out in my personality. People can get confused when they know me as a sensitive, caring, intelligent person, and then I express a desire or statement that is just shocking in its disregard for humanity or decency.
I'll take your comments as a warning. I may still look from afar, but hate and disregard can breed more hate and disregard.
thanks,
james k
Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 20:14:38
In reply to Re: internet weirdness » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 19:54:54
> Yeah, I think I know where you are coming from. There have been times in my life where I sought out the most extreme and ugly things. Italian slasher movies, underground literature, japanese horror, hate-based punk rock.
Yeah. I still do this in a lot of ways. Recognition of that fact is something that comes and goes however. Music. I like rap. But yeah, if you listen to the lyrics it is about raping bitches and so on and so forth. So what am I doing listening to that? Feeding myself those messages? I don't really know...
> I think I was trying to desensitize myself to anything affecting me.Hmm. I wonder if that might be true for me as well...
> It started to come out in my personality. People can get confused when they know me as a sensitive, caring, intelligent person, and then I express a desire or statement that is just shocking in its disregard for humanity or decency.
Hmm. I dare say a psychoanalyst would say that everybodies unconscious contains desires that are repressed because they are unacceptable to society / oneself... But... Sometimes I think it is about internalising these environmental messages... I don't know. (Does that mean I'm free)
;-)
> I'll take your comments as a warning. I may still look from afar, but hate and disregard can breed more hate and disregard.
I think so...
And the desensitisation...
Well...Pain.
I do think... People in pain tend to lash out.
Doesn't excuse it.
But it goes some way towards explaining it.
Making it comprehensible.It is just that...
You can't help people when they are trying to hurt you.
You have to withdraw from them in self-defence.
And recently...
I've become a little wary of people lashing out.
Because it does hurt.
And I start thinking about humanity... And I start wanting to curl up on myself and disappear.And it isn't good for me.
It is not.And desensitisation...
I could rage against them I suppose.
But all that would do is perpeptuate the cycle.A while back I used to think rather vivid thoughts about going down to community mental health with a gun or some explosives or something like that... I enjoyed the fantasy immensely. Wracking vengence on these people who hurt me.
But then I got a little concerned that indulging the fantasy would make it more likely to become an urge. Would make it more likely that I would do something stupid.
The feeling passed. But I had to help it along rather. By recasting my description of my treatment (or non-treatment) within the service. To really try and understand things from their pov. Along the way... It hurt a little less.
Not sure what I'm on about now... Gone from you to me I think.
I guess I feel sad when people lash out.
How mostly what people want is to feel connected and accepted.
How they hurt and lash out.
And what that does... Is it alienates the people who they could connect with.It is like people standing in a line. A rock falls on the first persons head (act of god) and the first person lashes out at the next (people tend to do that when they are in pain). THen the next person lashes out at the next person. And so on along the line.
The cycles has to stop somewhere.
Why can't people just be nice?
I do despair at times.
But thats when I know I need to spend more time with the people who are consistent in their kindness. I need to go enjoy the sun or a book or a walk or something like that. Enjoy a strangers smile. And try to muster some hope for humanity.
Posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 20:57:08
In reply to Re: internet weirdness » James K, posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 20:14:38
> A while back I used to think rather vivid thoughts about going down to community mental health with a gun or some explosives or something like that... I enjoyed the fantasy immensely. Wracking vengence on these people who hurt me.
>
> But then I got a little concerned that indulging the fantasy would make it more likely to become an urge. Would make it more likely that I would do something stupid.
>
---This goes right to the heart of my problems, as a purposeful defense against a violent and aggressive world that had attacked me from birth, I turned myself (or tried to turn myself) into someone willing and capable of doing anything. I fantasized and reinforced reactions and attitudes in an attempt to be ready for anything. Meaning anything could happen to my body but nobody could touch "me".Today, I told my therapist at the day clinic, that if I ever had to talk to the psychiatrist I saw last week again, I would hit her in the mouth with a chair. I actually meant it. They thought about locking me back up. I've never (rarely?) done anything like that, but sometimes it seems my whole life is leading up to it.
I've had moments of clarity where I can not only see the problem but see a path out of the maze I've created in my head. But then my self defenses kick in, and I literally forget the insights.
That's why I'm posting this personal and unpleasant info. I'm trying to remind myself what is real and what is desirable. And remind myself to keep searching and why I'm bothering.
>
> Not sure what I'm on about now... Gone from you to me I think.----Back to me:)
> I guess I feel sad when people lash out.
> How mostly what people want is to feel connected and accepted.---I'm good at making people feel good and accepted, positive feedback on that from co-workers and fellow patients shows me this. That's how I know the ugliness is not the real me.
> The cycles has to stop somewhere.
>
> Why can't people just be nice?---I want to put 10 times the goodness in the world to make up for the small amounts of badness I've put here.
> I do despair at times.
>
> But thats when I know I need to spend more time with the people who are consistent in their kindness. I need to go enjoy the sun or a book or a walk or something like that. Enjoy a strangers smile. And try to muster some hope for humanity.
>
---Do that, but don't forget about us who are still suffering.james K
Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 22:14:32
In reply to different subject, kind of strong » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 19, 2006, at 20:57:08
> ---This goes right to the heart of my problems, as a purposeful defense against a violent and aggressive world that had attacked me from birth, I turned myself (or tried to turn myself) into someone willing and capable of doing anything. I fantasized and reinforced reactions and attitudes in an attempt to be ready for anything. Meaning anything could happen to my body but nobody could touch "me".
Yeah. I think I understand that. Maybe there are two seperate (or seperable) processes there though.
I am (sometimes) able to go numb. I used to do that when my mother beat me. Just go numb and curl up in a little ball and numb out. She could do whatever she wanted and I'd just be numb. She couldn't hurt me. She couldn't touch me.
Sometimes... I think that is a good strategy. When you can't get away from the person.
Another strategy... May have been to cultivate the hostility. Apparantly my sister used to do that. I heard that my mother used to beat her with a wooden spoon. One day my sister grabbed it out of her hands and beat her back. Apparantly my mother never laid a finger on her again.
> Today, I told my therapist at the day clinic, that if I ever had to talk to the psychiatrist I saw last week again, I would hit her in the mouth with a chair. I actually meant it. They thought about locking me back up. I've never (rarely?) done anything like that, but sometimes it seems my whole life is leading up to it.I think that is where... The victim becomes the persecuter...
> I've had moments of clarity where I can not only see the problem but see a path out of the maze I've created in my head. But then my self defenses kick in, and I literally forget the insights.Yeah. I think sometimes it can be hard to control the rage... Really very hard. I'm not sure what to say. I've only talked about my violent thoughts on these boards. I don't know what a clinician would say about them... But I'm wondering whether the frustration / energy might be able to be put to use in physical activity. That that might take some of the power or force out of it. Dunno.
> ---I'm good at making people feel good and accepted, positive feedback on that from co-workers and fellow patients shows me this. That's how I know the ugliness is not the real me.How are you with feeling accepted and connected yourself?
> ---I want to put 10 times the goodness in the world to make up for the small amounts of badness I've put here.
Me too. I think... That is something that I find really meaningful.
> > I do despair at times.
> > But thats when I know I need to spend more time with the people who are consistent in their kindness. I need to go enjoy the sun or a book or a walk or something like that. Enjoy a strangers smile. And try to muster some hope for humanity.
> ---Do that, but don't forget about us who are still suffering.Yeah.
I only have to do that because...
I'm suffering too.And it is about prevention of my harming others.
take care.
Posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 0:43:46
In reply to Re: different subject, kind of strong » James K, posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 22:14:32
I was just off to bed and I was thinking.
You shared something delicate with me,
and I will be careful with it.goodnight,
james k
Posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 8:17:05
In reply to Re: different subject, kind of strong » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 0:43:46
>>>i went numb from feelings and emotion as a young child and to this day, i still use that as a defense mechanism. unfortunately, it has cost me now that i look back. i turned away from true love and settled for security when i hit bottom...
Posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 8:59:23
In reply to totally understand, posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 8:17:05
and this thread reminds me of so many 'forgotten' things. i remember my step-dad had a boat ore that he beat us with and one day when he was beating my older brother i lost it. i took the ore from him and ran up the street to a friends house and put that ore under her house. to this day i bet it is still there. then he went to baseball bats until i got one and popped a knee cap. when i was 16 and visiting my younger brothers he was drunk as usual and hit me from behind and knocked me down. i was 115 pounds soaking wet but the anger over came me and i beat the sh*t out of him. he NEVER laid another hand on me or my brothers. wow~that came out of no where but it feels good to just get it out.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 16:13:19
In reply to Re: different subject, kind of strong » alexandra_k, posted by James K on January 20, 2006, at 0:43:46
> I was just off to bed and I was thinking.
> You shared something delicate with me,
> and I will be careful with it.thanks. and you shared something delicate with me and i will be careful with that too.
hope you had a nice sleep.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 16:58:26
In reply to Re: totally understand, posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 8:59:23
>wow~that came out of no where but it feels good to just get it out.
i hope it helped you.
quite a few people find that speaking honestly about their experience is helpful.
to them.
and to others.
Posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 19:44:35
In reply to Re: totally understand » wildcard11, posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 16:58:26
yeah, it helps but it also brings back a sort of....hurt or maybe for awhile that *bad* feeling. that hard to explain feeling...it can make you vulnerable for a minute but helps more in the end. the longer poison stays inside the more damage it causes...
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 22:43:11
In reply to Re: totally understand » alexandra_k, posted by wildcard11 on January 20, 2006, at 19:44:35
> yeah, it helps but it also brings back a sort of....hurt or maybe for awhile that *bad* feeling. that hard to explain feeling...it can make you vulnerable for a minute but helps more in the end. the longer poison stays inside the more damage it causes...
yeah. i've been feeling like the walking wounded the last week or so. just thinking about stuff... talking about it is hard. i guess i've never talked about it. but i post about this stuff. and it helps. because normally i feel really ashamed about it. don't know why. maybe because it never occured to me to do anything. to fight back. to run away even. then i did run away when i was 14. but when i heard that story about my sister i thought that i let her do it for how many years when all i had to do was that... and so maybe it was my fault in a way. but of course i know it wasn't my fault.trying to figure out how to think charitably about my mother. that is hard work. but i think she was hurting a lot. a lot. and i think she was fairly unwell (in the mental health sense) too...
This is the end of the thread.
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