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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
hi all,
I suppose it's sometimes hypocritical for me to criticize others for falling into their same patterns, because I do it too.Recently I sort of "became friends" with a woman who I don't really like. She lives near me and does drive by's all the time, and calls incessantly. Even if I don't pick up the phone, I have caller ID, and some days she calls like 6-7 times, but doesn't leave a message - she just calls and calls. We're very casual acquaintance friends, but she is trying to be more. And I don't want to. And I don't know how to make her stop, because I'm afraid to hurt her feelings, even though I don't like her, and I don't want to hang out with her.
She's unstable (not like I'm NOT...and not like that is necessarily a problem) but she's unstable in a way I don't respect. She's trying to squeeze money out of someone with a fraudulent lawsuit, and she has these weird schemes, and she kind of freaks me out. I wish she'd leave me alone.
But how do I say it? What do I do?
Advice is appreciated!thanks,
JenStar
Posted by lynn971 on January 9, 2006, at 21:40:30
In reply to repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
I hate when I have to have confrontations. So, with my personality I would probably just keep avoiding her. I had the same problem once. I would not go straight home from work because I knew that she would be waiting. I got caller id so that I would not have to answer her calls. Maybe that is a wrong approach, but it worked for me.
Posted by wildcard on January 9, 2006, at 22:38:15
In reply to repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
I wish I knew what to tell you...You can keep avoiding her and hope she takes the hint but it is your home and you shouldn't feel harassed. If she continued, you could say your really busy w/ school, work, etc., and don't have a lot of time or wait for a really bad day and tell her to leave you the h*ll alone..lol You do deserve to be comfortable in your home though...
Posted by crazy teresa on January 10, 2006, at 1:50:39
In reply to repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
"Changes That Heal" would be fantastic for helping you figure out what to do.
Break it down (Hammertime...)
By not respecting your boundries, she is giving you this uncomfortable feeling, so realistically, she's not worried about your feelings...
And isn't the way she is disrupting your life (and your family's lives if they see you upset about this) more important than your worrying about how she might or might not get her feelings hurt?
Could you say something like, "You know, when I see on the caller ID you've called my house repeatedly without leaving messages, and I see you driving by frequently, I'm very uncomfortable." or "I'm not judging you, but I really can't agree with what you're doing in this lawsuit, so I just don't think I'm the best person to be your friend."
Or you could take the not-so-honest-approach and tell her you'll be testifying against her in the lawsuit... That would probably kill the friendship thing pretty quickly.
Since it sounds like she's nearly stalking you, that might not be good, though.
That's a really hard position to be in.
Posted by JenStar on January 10, 2006, at 11:32:56
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » JenStar, posted by crazy teresa on January 10, 2006, at 1:50:39
thanks, Crazy T! I do like the idea of confronting her face to face. I want her to know that what she's doing is making me uncomfortable. I don't know why I'm so afriad to just SAY it, though.
I think I will say something to her about calling so frequently and I WILL tell her I disagree about the lawsuit. I mean, I b**ched to my husband for a LOOOOONG time about how much she annoys me, and how I so disagree with what she's doing. It wouldn't be fair to ME to hang around with her. Or to her, either -- she should be with people who respect what she's doing (if she can find any.)
thanks. I will try to find the courage for this. I know I'll feel better for it later on!
JenStar
Posted by gee on January 10, 2006, at 11:47:31
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » crazy teresa, posted by JenStar on January 10, 2006, at 11:32:56
You could always try writing everything down before you say it, and take the paper with you so you can look back and see what you've missed, or what not. I'm big into writing things down otherwise I just chicken out or forget
Posted by Racer on January 10, 2006, at 14:27:34
In reply to repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
I've been through this, and will predict that there's not much you can do to avoid unpleasantness. It sounds as though this woman has a problem with respecting other people's boundaries, and she may very well react to anything you say with hostility. Please be prepared for the worst, when you confront her.
Which I think you should do.
The one thing I recommend, is that you say nothing more or less than stating your needs. "Right now, I can't be as close as you apparently want to be. I don't have the energy to speak with you every day, I need time away from you. Please respect my needs." Whether or not you include the lawsuit is up to you -- I doubt you'd really need to, since I suspect that saying what I just wrote will be enough to set her off. That, of course, is just my experience with the couple of people I've experienced this sort of thing with. So it might just be projection...
Whatever happens, Jen, please start out with a nice little piece of paper where you've written down your side of it -- that you're feeling stalked, that you need to respect your own boundaries, that it is perfectly OK to meet your own needs first. Do whatever you need to, to avoid buying in to any attacks that might come your way.
The most recent time I experienced something like this, I didn't even say anything about not continuing the acquaintance. I just said that I needed some quiet time, without daily telephone and email contact. And that set off a flood of calls and emails -- 9 calls and 12 emails in one day, all saying some version of "I understand your needs and support you." Well, that isn't supporting my need for time away from someone, right? When I said that, stating only my needs and my discomfort, I got something back that basically ripped me up one side and down the other as a terrible person, passive aggressive, with personality disorders out the wazoo, etc. And I immediately said I was wrong, that I was a terrible person, etc. My typical sort of reaction: it must be my fault. It was a terrible time for me, while I had many other very bad things happening, and I wish I had had some way to remind myself htat I really wasn't being unreasonable to say that I didn't want quite so much contact.
Anyway, good luck with it.
Posted by Phillipa on January 10, 2006, at 19:24:24
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » JenStar, posted by Racer on January 10, 2006, at 14:27:34
Caller ID always worked for me! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Susan47 on January 11, 2006, at 13:47:42
In reply to repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by JenStar on January 9, 2006, at 21:33:06
> hi all,
> I suppose it's sometimes hypocritical for me to criticize others for falling into their same patterns, because I do it too.
>
> Recently I sort of "became friends" with a woman who I don't really like. She lives near me and does drive by's all the time, and calls incessantly. Even if I don't pick up the phone, I have caller ID, and some days she calls like 6-7 times, but doesn't leave a message - she just calls and calls. We're very casual acquaintance friends, but she is trying to be more. And I don't want to. And I don't know how to make her stop, because I'm afraid to hurt her feelings, even though I don't like her, and I don't want to hang out with her.
>
> She's unstable (not like I'm NOT...and not like that is necessarily a problem) but she's unstable in a way I don't respect. She's trying to squeeze money out of someone with a fraudulent lawsuit, and she has these weird schemes, and she kind of freaks me out. I wish she'd leave me alone.
>
> But how do I say it? What do I do?
> Advice is appreciated!
>
> thanks,
> JenStar
Wow, that's pretty gross for you. It sounds like she's obsessive, probably from anxiety, and it's completely taken over her life. It isn't you so much probably as what you represent. She needs professional Help, like the sooner the better. I think you should just tell her exactly what you've told us, but doing it without triggering her.. like, make it totally impersonal, like, ask her what's REALLY bugging her, tell her your suspicions about her drive-by's and give her a chance to respond or admit to them, but let her know her behaviour maybe is indicative of something else going on. She sounds trapped in her own head, no wonder she freaks you out. That IS pretty scary behaviour. She might not even be aware of how scary it is, and if she IS then she Definitely Needs Help. Because that's just malicious, then.
Posted by Susan47 on January 11, 2006, at 13:58:00
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » JenStar, posted by crazy teresa on January 10, 2006, at 1:50:39
> "Changes That Heal" would be fantastic for helping you figure out what to do.
>
I'm ordering it from the library, that sounds like a good one. Sounds like the steps I've taken in the last couple of years ... amazing.
> Break it down (Hammertime...)
>
> By not respecting your boundries, she is giving you this uncomfortable feeling, so realistically, she's not worried about your feelings...
>
Yeah, she's definitely "using" Jenstar.
> And isn't the way she is disrupting your life (and your family's lives if they see you upset about this) more important than your worrying about how she might or might not get her feelings hurt?
>
It's probably equally as important, actually, from Jenstar's point of view, because if she hurts this girl's feelings and she sounds pretty malicious actually if she's doing this immoral thing that Jenstar disagrees with. I mean, she doesn't exactly sound like a person you'd want to trigger into anger, not if you think she'd actually do something to hurt you. The harassing Jenstar at home is already pretty hurtful. And the drive-bys? Well that's really clearly showing illness of the mental sort. Unless there were other reasons this girl has to drive by, I mean could it be legitimately her route to/from somewhere?
> Could you say something like, "You know, when I see on the caller ID you've called my house repeatedly without leaving messages, and I see you driving by frequently, I'm very uncomfortable." or "I'm not judging you, but I really can't agree with what you're doing in this lawsuit, so I just don't think I'm the best person to be your friend."
>
She'd probably get angry with both those statements, I don't know if I'd trigger her to that.. I can't see myself being able to say either of those things.
> Or you could take the not-so-honest-approach and tell her you'll be testifying against her in the lawsuit... That would probably kill the friendship thing pretty quickly.
>
Yeah, and make Jenstar tell a pretty big lie, especially if she ends up not doing that. I don't know, maybe a smaller lie would be better.
> Since it sounds like she's nearly stalking you, that might not be good, though.
>
> That's a really hard position to be in.
Thanks for letting me hammer away, too ...
Posted by crazy teresa on January 11, 2006, at 19:43:32
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » crazy teresa, posted by Susan47 on January 11, 2006, at 13:58:00
I agree.
Maybe it'd be wise to start keeping a diary of all the calls and drive by's you see. Then if she crosses the line when she's confronted, Jen could show it to her or the authorities if it ever became necessary.
Another option which I didn't think of earlier, is to maybe make her dislike you... But that could be ugly too.
I'm sorry you've got to deal with this.
Posted by JenStar on January 12, 2006, at 10:11:14
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by crazy teresa on January 11, 2006, at 19:43:32
thanks again to everyone for your support. I talked to my hubby (who always thinks she's pretty weird) and he thinks that if I come out and tell her to stay away, it might make her mad. He suggested doing the "slow withdrawal" thing -- making myself less and less accessible over time, until she gets tired of it and moves on to someone more available.
But the thing is, I've already DONE that. I never call her; I rarely pick up her calls; the only time I saw her was the other week when she did a drive-by and I thought it was UPS and I answered the door. So I ended up talking with her and going for a walk b/c I didn't want her to hang out in my house.
But I actually DID come out and tell her honestly that I completely disagree with her lawsuit, and I think it's hypocritical and wrong. She acted like she was going to cry. Then -- and this is weird -- it's like she TOTALLY FORGOT I SAID IT. She started chattering on again about it all, as if I'd never even expressed my disagreement. Almost like she blocked it out!
Then she started getting all clingy and asking if she gets divorced can she store lawyer papers at my house. I said NO. She started following me to my house. Then, thank god, she got a phone call from a friend. As quickly as she's latched onto me, she suddenly forgot me. In the middle of a sentence she answered the phone and started BABBLING to this other person. I hesitated a few moments, not sure what to do. "I'm going home, see you later," I told her. She barely even noticed. "OK" she told me, and her whole face brightened as she talked to this friend. (Good, I am glad she has one!)
She's so easily distractable. So it' makes it clear to me that she doesn't really need ME, or want ME. She just wants an AUDIENCE, someone to talk to. So...if I "abandon" her - she still has people!
Weird, though. And why do I see to collect people like this? Why can't I randomly meet friends that I want to hang out with? Is htere something wrong with me? (Probalby...maybe don't answer this!)
JenStar
Posted by Susan47 on January 12, 2006, at 10:54:58
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice!, posted by crazy teresa on January 11, 2006, at 19:43:32
> I agree.
>
> Maybe it'd be wise to start keeping a diary of all the calls and drive by's you see. Then if she crosses the line when she's confronted, Jen could show it to her or the authorities if it ever became necessary.
>
> Another option which I didn't think of earlier, is to maybe make her dislike you... But that could be ugly too.
>
> I'm sorry you've got to deal with this.
>
Me, too. Keeping a diary of all of it is a really good idea, that's what anyone any lawyer or police officer would tell someone to do. (Scary to think that's what my ex-therapist was doing to me ... and I PUT someone in that position, that's what's really horrible!) ... but Jenstar should do that for sure. Just as a back-up plan if all else failed.. but I still think Jenstar can do it somehow and still be honest, because making someone dislike you can really backfire. Treat someone like an enemy, and in no time, they are an enemy.
Posted by Susan47 on January 12, 2006, at 11:00:01
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » crazy teresa, posted by JenStar on January 12, 2006, at 10:11:14
No, I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
Posted by crazy teresa on January 13, 2006, at 8:47:09
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » crazy teresa, posted by JenStar on January 12, 2006, at 10:11:14
That's all sounding so very familiar...
Posted by Racer on January 24, 2006, at 17:43:01
In reply to Re: repeating old patterns? need advice! » crazy teresa, posted by JenStar on January 12, 2006, at 10:11:14
> >> Is htere something wrong with me? (Probalby...maybe don't answer this!)
>
> JenStarSorry, gonna answer anyway: Yeah, there is something wrong with you -- some woman is harrassing you! Otherwise, nope, not a thing. In fact, I'd guess that half the reason you've got this problem is that you're kind, you're able to empathize with others, which is what attracts them to you. It's that rusty iron lining to that golden cloud, you know?
I hope things are getting better, JenStar. Having read that description, though, I'd offer a little different advice: Keep bringing her back to the point when she does corner you. "I don't agree with your lawsuit." "I cannot support you in this lawsuit." "I'm not sure you understand what I'm trying to say: I don't want to hear about this lawsuit of yours, because I think it's immoral." Just gently keep on point with your message. And if she starts talking about how you're hurting her feelings, gently express your feeling that she is not being respectful of *your* feelings, because if she were, she'd stop talking to you about her lawsuit.
My guess is that she's looking for the attention, and if you consistently -- but gently -- refuse to meet that need, she will lose interest and move on. It's also good practice for you in defending your boundaries, because this is a boundary issue, after all.
Who said "good fences make good neighbors?" "Good boundaries make good relationships..."
Good luck, to a good JenStar...
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