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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 148. Go back in thread:
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:30
In reply to Re: Exercise, vitamins and illegal drugs, posted by Declan on July 1, 2005, at 19:40:58
You've hit the nail on the head : "Firt do no harm". Most doctors don't even understand what that means. Death from medication side effects is one of the leading causes of death in this country, well over 100,000 deaths per year. In the majority of cases the drugs were never needed. And even if the drugs were needed, the "one size fits all" mentality of dosing is absolutely idiotic. Case in point, prozac. Even Eli Lilly showed that it works (and I use the word "works" very losely) at 5 mg/day. But for marketing reasons they bumped it up t 20 mg/day, causing many more side effects to emerge for most people.
N> When I was 17 I needed to believe that this society had soul doctors. I therefore went to see a shrink. I was stubborn about the soul doctor thing, and it was quite some time before I got over it, and went into psychodynamics where I could indulge it. However my contact with psychdrs led me to a 30 year benzo habit, enabled by 70s style Rxing for them. Not really the drs fault, I would have done it and other stuff on my own. But the first rule of medicine is first of all do no harm. In my opinion we'd be better off with illegal drugs, vitamins and exercise. Or maybe I'm just jaundiced.
> Declan
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:30
In reply to Re: Exercise, vitamins and illegal drugs, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 19:50:46
Case in point, prozac. Even Eli Lilly showed that it works (and I use the word "works" very losely) at 5 mg/day. But for marketing reasons they bumped it up t 20 mg/day, causing many more side effects to emerge for most people.
---------------------------------------------Yes, but thats not psychiatry, thats the drug
companies and the FDA. Like I said, theres good out there and theres bad out there. You need to know the ropes. Most doctors don't know the ropes because they've never taken these meds and have been taugh nonsense in school.But I keep coming back because I know that, although they're way off, there onto something.
Linkadge
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:30
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him... » Nezirov, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2005, at 19:48:49
There are few things I disagree with you on here. It would seem our opinions are not so different after all.
What I do disagree with though is your assertion that "we think there is something wrong with us". I never thought there was something "wrong" with me. I just knew I was so stressed out that I needed some therapy.
I resisted going on celexa very strongly, but there was enormous pressure put on me to do so. The "industry" *wants* you to think that there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain, but in 99% of cases there is no organic disease whatsoever. But after you take these poisons, who knows what they do to the brain.Nezirov> I will agree with you that the medications are overprescribed. And I also agree with you that many people can get the raw end of the stick, when doctors don't listen to their patients.
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> The DSM is not the reason that so many people are on meds these days. It's partly due to the drug companies advertising the meds on TV (which should not be allowed IMO) and its partly due to ourselves. We want perfect lives, and when things are less than perfect we think that things are wrong, we think that we are abnormal, and that there is something wrong with us. Its *our* fault that we are willing to work 80 hours a week, and stress ourselves to suicidal, just to get more money, status etc.
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> Nobody is forcing us to take these medications. We choose them. We can choose not to take them.
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> We also want fast results. Sure, eating right, exercising, and choosing a less stressfull job would probably help 50 % of "mental illness" out there. But we want to keep our job, sit on the couch and eat garbage, and feel better overnight.
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> Depression is a signal. But in the end it is our fault for wanting our cake, and to eat it too.
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> On the other hand
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> Just as heart disease can be caused by this toxic lifestlye, it can still exist in the absence of any toxic lifestyle. That is where meds can help. For those who do make every concieveable lifestyle change that could improve their depression and yet they still want to slit their wrists on a daily basis. This is where meds can help. But I will admit, I am not one of those people.
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Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:30
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 19:59:05
Dream on Dr. Nezerov, you need medication too!
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:30
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:12:10
> Dream on Dr. Nezerov, you need medication too!
No I don't. I've been off all medications for over two years now, and I'm doing just fine, thanks.
It seems like you need a medication change though, because I'm starting to get the feeling I'm being stalked. When's your next appointment? D'ya think you could get in sooner?Nezirov
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:23:16
I don't mean this in a facetious way at all. I am just wondering what you are here for, if you have no intentions of ever touching a psychiatric med again so long as you live ?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by iforgotmypassword on July 1, 2005, at 6:10:44
Scientology approaches it the wrong way. Anyone can raise a flag.
Linkadge
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by linkadge on July 1, 2005, at 21:28:06
I am not stalking Nez, but paranoia is a "symptom"!
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Why'd you come to this board ? » Nezirov, posted by linkadge on July 1, 2005, at 21:26:59
I came here to advertize my SSRI sexual side effects group on Yahoo and then got caught up in the discussions that ensued. I don't mean this in a facetious way either, but do you think you will be on meds for the rest of your life?
> I don't mean this in a facetious way at all. I am just wondering what you are here for, if you have no intentions of ever touching a psychiatric med again so long as you live ?
>
> Linkadge
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:31:24
> I am not stalking Nez, but paranoia is a "symptom"!
It's not my fault that you have paranoia. As I said, try to get a sooner appointment.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: personally i hope people listen to him..., posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:31:24
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:36:02
Hey Nez, you remind me of Tom Cruise. He is clearly manic depressive, and in complete denial!
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:39:51
Ya, sellin bunk!
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: No, Nez is just a salesman, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:42:26
> Ya, sellin bunk!
I'm not selling anything. Seems like you're having delusions now in addition to the paranoia and stalking tendencies. It's worse for you than I thought...Nezirov.
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:31
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:39:51
> Hey Nez, you remind me of Tom Cruise. He is clearly manic depressive, and in complete denial!
Why do you think Tom Cruise is manic depressive?
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:39:51
> Hey Nez, you remind me of Tom Cruise. He is clearly manic depressive, and in complete denial!
Please elaborate. keep posting! This is entertaining...
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:46:04
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to perhaps it's your combativeness? (nm), posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:47:21
Do you like that?
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: perhaps it's your combativeness?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:49:59
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to or hypersexuality!! (nm), posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:51:10
Well, you were the one who said I might be Tom Cruise (not that all women fancy him, of course)...
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:46:04
It is a combination of the combativeness and denial of his symptoms. Nez so desperately wants to be "Normal" he can't stop telling the world how "Normal" he is. This is a threat to his world in that he is afraid of his "true" nature.
Posted by sleepygirl on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:54:05
You are interesting you know, but why the interest really in the meds?
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by flmm on July 1, 2005, at 21:54:26
Is that the best you can do? Where are all of these posts of me proclaiming "I'm normal"?
Go back and check, though I know it's difficult for somebody like you who is delusional. On the contrary, you devoted a whole post to stating that you absolutely required medication.N
> It is a combination of the combativeness and denial of his symptoms. Nez so desperately wants to be "Normal" he can't stop telling the world how "Normal" he is. This is a threat to his world in that he is afraid of his "true" nature.
Posted by flmm on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:32
In reply to Re: Why'd you come to this board ?, posted by Nezirov on July 1, 2005, at 21:58:41
Just jerkin yer chain Nez. I am done! See ya around. Good luck stayin "Normal"
Posted by Nezirov on July 2, 2005, at 0:55:33
In reply to Re: or hypersexuality!!, posted by sleepygirl on July 1, 2005, at 21:55:26
> You are interesting you know, but why the interest really in the meds?
Thanks. I think these meds are much more powerful than most people realize. And ultimately detrimental to long-term health, mental and otheriwse.
And since I've been adversely affected by them (long-term loss of sex drive), I feel an ethical responsibility to point out the potential dangers of these drugs to others.N
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