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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by AdaGrace on November 13, 2004, at 15:22:03
In reply to rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER***, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:43
try to pretend it didn't happen? I don't know, I have threatened suicide to one of my best friends, but i meant it. I can't imagine someone doing it as a joke. Be strong, try to remember that you are a strong person. I feel for you.
Really do.
Posted by jujube on November 13, 2004, at 15:23:43
In reply to rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER***, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:43
Like you, I find it hard to believe how a person can think a stunt like that is funny. Talk about poor taste. And, yes, it is hard to have any respect for someone who would leave such a message as a joke.
I can't tell you what to do, but I think one way to handle the situation is to just return to work on Monday and treat him like you would any other colleague - professionally and courteously, but avoid any friendly contact such as joking and talking about personal things. You have said that you already told how his insensitive joke affected you, which is a good thing. If he presses you about your new attitude toward him, perhaps you could just tell him (like you said here), that you find it hard to respect someone who thinks death and taking ones life is a joke.
Good luck to you. And, I hope your interview goes well.
Tamara
> so there's a co-worker of mine that i frequently joke(d) (past tense now, maybe) around with at work.
>
> 10 pm friday night, he must have been out drinking. he leaves a message on my answering machine
> "hey <name> where are you? i'm out here with my shotgun and i'm about to blow my head off" <leaves his cell number>
>
> my jaw just about hit the floor. i call his cell. this is his idea of a joke. he's like, "hey take it easy there, i think you've had a bit too much reality there". my reply is "yeah it's f***ing hilarious until one of your friends kills himself. bye" slam the phone in his ear.
>
> i called him this morning on his cell phone because i did not want to be confronting him at work about this monday morning. i asked for an apology. he said "i'm sorry i didn't know you were sensitive about it, i wouldn't have done it if i had known you would have reacted that way"
>
> i lost it on him. i've lost all respect for him. now i have to see him at work monday morning and i don't know what to do. who wouldn't have known that suicide threats on a person's answering machine aren't funny jokes? what kind of person does that? sick. sick. sick. all i can think is sick. sick. sick. i'm hysterically upset by this.
>
> ps - i am interviewing for a new job on friday and i hope i get it. but i have to deal him for at least a couple more months. what do i do?
Posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 15:45:38
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** » octopusprime, posted by AdaGrace on November 13, 2004, at 15:22:03
thanks guys
i don't know how i can pretend it didn't happen
i am sitting here crying and have been for the last two hours
i am just so disturbed - i know this guy well, we'd go out after work for beer, i met his wife, went to his house and birthday party, invited him for dinner
i can't believe he did this to me
i can tell that he regrets it but i'm just so upsetit's a small office, twenty people, so others will notice that our relationship chilled overnight
i dread having to explain it
i dread having to face it
nobody in the office knew of my mental illness and the stresses i've had to face
and i'm afraid it's all going to come out now ...
Posted by jujube on November 13, 2004, at 16:47:37
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** jujube and » AdaGrace, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 15:45:38
I'm sorry that you are struggling and having a hard time reconciling this. I don't think you can pretend that it never happened. Perhaps what you need to do before Monday, once you have calmed down a bit, is to call him (again) and as rationally as possible explain to him (again) how his words and actions affected you. You could further explain that, as a result, it will be difficult for you to remain friends with him outside of the workplace, but that you would like to try to remain on "friendly" terms in the office and for the sake of the office. I don't think it should be up to you to explain to your colleagues what happened, but if you choose to, couldn't you just explain that your priorities have changed somewhat and leave it at that?. I would think, however, that any person with any sense of compassion and sensitivity would react the same way you did. IMOH, whether a person has suffered from mental illness or not, his actions would have affected them in a negative and disturbing way. However, if you do end up having to tell others what happened, it may well affect how others treat him. Since you may be moving on, he would be left in an environment that is uncomfortable. So, maybe it's best to try to avoid getting others in the office involved. And, is it really the business of your colleagues what goes on in your personal life? I mean, yes he is a colleague, but you also had a friendship with him outside of the workplace. And, again only IMOH, our personal relationships and what goes on in our personal lives do not need to be disclosed to our office colleagues, unless we choose to do and are comfortable doing so.
I hope you find a way to deal with this situation that brings you comfort and peace of mind. Take good care.
Tamara
> thanks guys
> i don't know how i can pretend it didn't happen
> i am sitting here crying and have been for the last two hours
> i am just so disturbed - i know this guy well, we'd go out after work for beer, i met his wife, went to his house and birthday party, invited him for dinner
> i can't believe he did this to me
> i can tell that he regrets it but i'm just so upset
>
> it's a small office, twenty people, so others will notice that our relationship chilled overnight
> i dread having to explain it
> i dread having to face it
> nobody in the office knew of my mental illness and the stresses i've had to face
> and i'm afraid it's all going to come out now ...
Posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 19:12:31
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** jujube and » octopusprime, posted by jujube on November 13, 2004, at 16:47:37
hmm call him and have a rational conversation?
well at least i've calmed down enough now that i'm not shaking at the keyboard any more. :-/
i'm having some odd reactions to this right now:
* i don't want to call him, i want him to repent. beg my forgiveness. grovel at my feet.
* i feel like if i call him, i have lost. he's "sunk my battleship". found my weak spot so that he can exploit it.
* i almost want to call some of my other coworkers and tell them, then ask them to beat him up for me. i bet they would too. or maybe get him fired. (i know this is a BAD IDEA and i won't do it. but i fantasize)so this is all proof that i'm not ready to talk to him rationally yet.
deep down i know you're right jujube and i appreciate your support. thanks. but it's just making myself get there ...
ps - since when did the simpsons get so violent and disturbing? a poor distraction they turned out to be.
Posted by just plain jane on November 13, 2004, at 19:29:43
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** » jujube, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 19:12:31
Gee, o p
It sounds like your office has enough of its employees who are casual that maybe the idea of coworkers being in on it (his ignorant behavior) isn't such a bad one.
Were it my situation, I believe I'd go to work and when he tried to talk to me I would state clearly and just loudly enough for coworkers to hear, "Listen *butthead's name*, I am still angry and disappointed with you about your stunt Friday night. I'm not sure I want to have a friendship with someone who is so thoughtless. I would never have dreamed you would be so shallow and inconsiderate."
or something along those lines, in as calm and yet displeased a voice as I could. HeII, I might even confront him, instead of waiting for him to approach me.
This would be about the same conversation I would have with any coworker who asked if there was something wrong between you and *butthead's name*, in the context of telling them about it, of course, where the "you"s would become "he"s.
I believe this type of treatment of him would have a tendancy to get your point across without allowing him to perceive your vulnerability and the pain he caused, nor would it expose your emotional problems.
But then, the beating him up idea does appeal to me greatly, also. ;)
just plain noBS jane
Posted by jujube on November 13, 2004, at 19:40:57
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** » jujube, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 19:12:31
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck. As far as I'm concerned, though, he is the one who has lost. Not only has he lost a good and obviously kind and caring friend, but he has also lost someone's respect. And, as far as the exploitation thing goes, anyone who thinks it is funny and amusing to cause someone emotional distress and call it a joke, is the exploitable one. Remember the little boy who cried wolf?
I also know what you mean about not wanting people at work to know about your mental illness and your triggers. I am the same way, even though a number of my colleagues have talked openly to me about their own struggles and their need to be on medication. I talked to my pdoc about that, and he said that I would be surprised about how many people have been through it and are still going through it. He said the person in the office next to mine could be suffering and I may never even know it. I guess we just never know. Nevertheless, like you, I prefer not to share that aspect of my life with my co-workers.
I know what you mean about the Simpsons. Funny, though, as dysfunctional as they are, they really seem to be a close knit family (even if it is only animination).
Take care, and good luck.
Posted by jlynne on November 13, 2004, at 21:01:36
In reply to Re: rattled » octopusprime, posted by just plain jane on November 13, 2004, at 19:29:43
[good words, Jane]
I am for the direct approach, too, op . . .
This guy's actions were obviously out of line, and you do not deserve to continue suffering from his adolescent antics. You do not need to feel any responsibility toward him for keeping it private - he overstepped the boundaries, and he is the one who needs to answer for his actions. And who knows, maybe he will learn a valuable lesson from this.
Just my opinion, dear . . . you have to do what feels right for you - always.
(((op)))
. . . jlynne
Posted by Susan47 on November 14, 2004, at 11:07:45
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** » jujube, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 19:12:31
Octopusprime, I think if you call this insensitive schmuck and apologize you're putting yourself down and invalidating your feelings, which were quite a rational reaction to his very poor behaviour. Dahling, tell his wife what he did. She'll straighten him out if she has a brain.
Posted by AuntieMel on November 14, 2004, at 13:51:23
In reply to rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER***, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:43
Geez. I wouldn't apologize to him, but on the other hand it does sound like it was a bad joke gone wrong. He *did* say he wouldn't have done it if he knew it would upset you.
My personal opinion is that confronting him at work will only prolong the uncomfortableness longer. If it were me I would be polite as could be, while not getting too close, and wait for hime to come to you. The only thing a confrontation accomplishes is giving him a rationalization. "see - it's her, not me"
Just my opinion.
Posted by octopusprime on November 14, 2004, at 14:32:31
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** » octopusprime, posted by AuntieMel on November 14, 2004, at 13:51:23
AuntieMel, see here's my problem.
He did apologize.
He didn't want to upset me.
But at the same time, I can't believe I voluntarily associated with a person that would think, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, that leaving such a message was OK.
He didn't say that what he did was wrong.I kid around with this guy so I can see why he might get the wrong ideas. But not like this. Nothing that even remotely compares to this.
I think his original intention was just to make sure I would call back. He said "Well you did call right?"
Since he doesn't seem to be calling me back, the next time I will talk to him will be at the office. I refuse to call him. I don't want to see this guy. I will tell him to get out of my sight. I know he's going to apologize. But I don't care. I'll tell him to get out of my sight before I raise my voice and make a scene. If he is smart he will get out of my way and STAY out of my way.
I've been thinking about what jlynne and justplainjane said about keeping it private. I won't feel obligated to do that. I already told a friend of mine that knows both of us what happened. Cause I know he will be angry that I'm freezing him out. But I just can't deal with him.
Also I hesitate to tell because the uncle of another guy in the office blew his head off with a shotgun this summer. Mr. Suicide Joke knows this (he was there when the third coworker told me about it). So suicide jokes really aren't funny.
And now it means I have power over Mr. Suicide Joke - I know something embarrassing about him that he won't want to get out. He'll behave then. Simple blackmail. Evil, but it might work.
Ugh I feel dirty typing this. Anyway I feel better after taking a long walk on the beach last night. I am going to take a break from babble, this thread, and these thoughts today so I can play a little music and have some time out with my other friends. I will try to put this out of my head until tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens
thanks for the support
((everybody))
Posted by Susan47 on November 14, 2004, at 22:23:49
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** everybody and » AuntieMel, posted by octopusprime on November 14, 2004, at 14:32:31
I stopped reading at "Well you did call right"? or something like that. I'll keep reading in a sec but octopus I just wanted to give yuo my gut reaction to that is he's a manipulator and he admits it. I know, because I can manipulate peop[le too, we *all* can and I truly believe that we all *do* ... and most people don't mean to do any harm, in fact a lot of times people will unknowingly manipulate in order to do what they believe is really *good* ... of course, it's all subjective after that, too, but my point is, he seems *out to do bad* (underlined a million times!). And he doesn't even have try to hide the fact that he wanted to hurt you. He's scary, imo and I've been known to be very very wrong too though.
Posted by Susan47 on November 14, 2004, at 22:26:27
In reply to Re: rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER*** everybody and » AuntieMel, posted by octopusprime on November 14, 2004, at 14:32:31
Mr Suicide Joke might be grieving the suicide or somehow feeling it more deeply than he realizes and so now he's trying to be funny with it. Is that possible? Another armchair ramble, sorry.
Posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 14:20:56
In reply to rattled ***HUGE TRIGGER***, posted by octopusprime on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:43
well mr. suicide joke knows no mercy.
he sent me two emails trying to justify himself.
said the only reason i reacted the way i did is because of my "issues"
that i need to settle down
that he apologized twice and that it should be good enough
and tried to explain that he was just sitting at his computer desk drinking, looking at his gun, and the gun happened to be pointed at his head, and that he wasn't REALLY going to off himself so that's ok. you know, because when he drinks, he makes stuff up. just like when he yells at cops.well after the second email i tried to talk to him. tell him to stop sending me emails.
after the third email i lost it and dissolved into tears at my desk. printed off the emails and handed them to a friend of mine at the office and to the office manager and left. i told them i would be back later today (i have just a buttload of work to do) but i don't know if i can go. i told the office manager as i left in tears "deal with this because i can't".
Posted by jujube on November 15, 2004, at 16:05:40
In reply to update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 14:20:56
Given what transpired today, I think you did the right thing. You obviously did your best to deal with him. What he did to you today is nothing but harrassment. This guy obviously needs help, and hopefully the manager will recognize that and suggest that he get some. I agree with a previous poster that perhaps you should let his wife know. What he is doing is not normal. It sounds like a cry for help or attention.
I hope you start to feel better soon, and I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Take good care.
Tamara
Posted by fallsfall on November 15, 2004, at 18:11:11
In reply to update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 14:20:56
You did the right thing. I hope that the office manager can get through to him - or keep him away from you, at a minimum.
Let us know how it goes.
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 15, 2004, at 18:24:47
In reply to update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 14:20:56
Oh OP - I'm so sorry for all you've been through. I think you know my history, so I have some idea of your sensitivity to the topic.
Bare minimum, the guy sounds he has a substance abuse problem. Sitting around drinking with a gun by ones side is a pretty serious sign of a problem. If it's true, that behavior needs to end ASAP. Since he also sounds impulsive, that's a triple threat for a suicide (alcohol, weapon, impulsivity).
I hope the office manager contacts him and insists he get counseling. Personally, I would not let him return to work without that agreement. It would be great if someone let his wife or bestfriend know too.
The man has acted like a complete jerk, but I think he has also done it in a very "telling" fashion. And, imho, it's always best to over-react in these situations, than under-react. Perhaps his nastiness to you, OP, regarding mental health problem is veiled anger at himself and his OWN biiiig issues. He just can't admit he has them yet.
Again, I'm SO sorry this has happened. People seem to find our soft spot sometimes and kick there the hardest. Big hugs.
emmy
Posted by jlynne on November 15, 2004, at 22:03:35
In reply to update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 14:20:56
Op, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It seems this has gone way beyond a prank, and I agree with other posters here that this person needs help. I hope you can find a way to separate yourself emotionally from this insanity. I believe you did the right thing, sweetie.
((((op))))
. . . jlynne
Posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 23:10:50
In reply to Re: update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER » octopusprime, posted by jlynne on November 15, 2004, at 22:03:35
so after i sat at home, collecting my thoughts, drinking a cup of tea, i decided to go out for a grilled sandwich (spicy capicollo and havarti on a half focacia, heavy on the artichokes, eggplant, olives, and peppers!) and chocolate bar (imported italian, hazelnut flavour). mmm lunch. walked back to work (5 km).
the office manager decided not to show the emails to anybody. i sent the emails to my boss. my boss came to talk to me, said he was sorry. i started crying. he said "is there anything i can do?" ... in my head i want mr. suicide joke fired. in practice i just sort of whimpered and shook my head. my friendly coworker pointed out to me that in a real company mr. suicide joke would have been escorted out of the building and had his stuff couriered to him. i don't think my boss (who is mr. suicide joke's boss) even talked to him. so the management isn't managing, it's not much of a surprise to me. that fact was what had me looking for another job before this entire incident happened.
anyway all of my coworkers were very concerned about me in that warm, fuzzy, we care kind of way. it was kinda nice but i'm not used to all this attention (having never burst out crying at my desk before in my entire life).
mr suicide joke himself was mercifully quiet all afternoon. i studiously avoided eye contact with him whenever i passed him in the corridor (it is a VERY small office). i think he knows he's in trouble now.
you guys are right, he probably does just need help. but i don't know how to talk to my boss about it. maybe in a few days i will be able to look at it rationally. but part of me doesn't care. part of me says prep carefully for the job interview on friday and concentrate on getting the hell out of that office. but the nice coworkers don't want me to go. and i like the nice coworkers. maybe i can just bring them with me to a new job.
thanks so much ... between you guys and my nice coworkers, i am feeling way less nuts. it helps to know that other people think he is also being out of line.
it is so sad because four days ago if he had invited me for a beer, i wouldn't have blinked an eye. now it is all over. sad to lose a social relationship. worse to lose it over something like this. i feel like i am being rash, in a week or two this whole incident will look different. but i don't know. and i won't be able to ignore him forever in a room that small ...
Posted by Susan47 on November 16, 2004, at 0:20:32
In reply to went back to work, wishing for management, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 23:10:50
You'll find really nice co-workers at a new job too, octopusprime. DOn't stay or even thingk of staying because of the people. It's the management that runs the show, remember that always. Unless you go to work for a very humanitarian agency. That is, one that puts employees before the share value ... heeeheee, omigod I'm going to split my sides laughing!!!! Aaaaahhaaaahaaaaahaaaaa.
Posted by Susan47 on November 16, 2004, at 0:22:37
In reply to went back to work, wishing for management, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 23:10:50
BTW IMO the guy's a creep and if you stay in the job, in his circle, no matter what is said to you in the way of promises now, he ain't about to change his colours. I honestly don't think he can, unless he were to go to therapy ...
Posted by Susan47 on November 16, 2004, at 0:24:18
In reply to Re: update: home from work, lasted an hour TRIGGER » octopusprime, posted by TofuEmmy on November 15, 2004, at 18:24:47
BTW IMO Emmy has really good advice about overreacting .. this is the time to do it, you did the right thing :) imh,ho
Posted by partlycloudy on November 16, 2004, at 6:12:49
In reply to went back to work, wishing for management, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 23:10:50
I've had some disappointments in asking office management to intervene in an upsetting situation. In my experience, if they don't act immediately, then nothing's going to happen.
And I hope I don't sound too callous, but I wouldn't worry too much about losing this guy's friendship. I have found that social relationships with coworkers can be really intense and satisfying, but they often evaporate when you switch jobs. Something about not seeing them every day for 8 hours. It does make it hard when you're working with the person and your friendship has soured (just ask TexasChic, she had a tough time not long ago). You're better off protecting yourself and dropping this guy from your social circle altogether. It's not too hard to be civil but not friendly, you know?
Sorry if this sounds out of line. I'm like TofuEmmy in that I've been very senstitive to upsetting circumstances, too.
Posted by jujube on November 16, 2004, at 8:13:26
In reply to went back to work, wishing for management, posted by octopusprime on November 15, 2004, at 23:10:50
I'm sorry that management has not taken any action. It's unfortunate and sad, but management can tend to turn a blind eye to things that are not adversely affecting the bottom line and overall office productivity. I'm glad to hear, however, that your colleagues were supportive towards you. You probably do have some options however, particularly if your company has an employment harassment policy. If you feel that something needs to be done, you could always talk to your personnel or human resources people and see if such a policy exists and what you can do about filing a complaint.
As for losing a friend, yes, it is painful and sad. But, personally, I feel that friendship is built on trust and mutual respect. I could not remain friends with someone I could not trust and for whom I had lost respect. Nor could I remain friends with someone who displayed such a lack of respect towards me by joking around about something (more than once) that the person obviously knew would cause me emotionally pain.
Just my two cents.
Take good care, and good luck at your job interview.
Tamara
Posted by sunny10 on November 18, 2004, at 12:02:10
In reply to Re: went back to work, wishing for management » octopusprime, posted by jujube on November 16, 2004, at 8:13:26
OP, are you in the US? If so, seems to me you have the right and the responsibility to go to HR. If this person bugs you ever again, after you go to HR, you can sue for harassment against your company.
If he does what he threatens, his family actually will have the right to sue you, your office manager, your boss, and the company.
HR needs to deal with this guy, fast. He needs to be told about whatever employee asistance programs they have in place to help their employees help themselves. And that conversation needs to be documented. As the initial recipient of those disturbing emails, you have the responsibility to bring it to HR's attention.
Greatest thing about that responsibility? You get to cry all over them, and YOU are not the "crazy" one....
Just my 2 cents...
sunny10
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