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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
I went to a chiropractor. He said it would be $50 for the first day and $10 for each day after that. Well, I got there and based on my compliants the doc stated I needed a nerve conduction test and he went off in another room to check to see if my insurance would cover it. He said they would. So, the doc says to pay my co-pay $200 and that's all I would owe him. Well, this guy billed my insurance company for almost $11,000 for x-rays and the test!!!! My insurance has refused to pay one dollar and didn't even apply that $200 to my deductible. This guy says I need to appeal to my insurance. He hasn't given me the codes he has billed for. I asked around about that nerve conduction test cost. It runs about $400 per limb. This guy appears to be trying to rob somebody (me or the insurance company). Every time I talk to him he demands $$$$$$. (I told him from the 1st meeting that I was unemployed.) He says I need to meet my deductible. If he bills for something my insurance company will not pay for, I am dumping money in a black hole and not meeting a deductible for last year.
I am writing him a letter asking for all his information concerning this situation. The insurance company denies this guy asked about that test and he just called for basic chiropractic coverage. Please educate me. What can I do other than appeal with the insurance company if this guy gives me his information? I would have NEVER AGREED to a test and x-rays running in that range. I feel ripped off. Can any one help me out here with some information?
Posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:50:04
In reply to A doc trying to bankrupt me!, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
The last time I spoke with this cracker, I told him that I wanted an itemized bill. He said your insurance is a Lier and they said they would pay me. You need to give me $400 to pay the doc that read your report. I told him, "I told you I was unemployed and HAVE NO $$$$$!!" He said, "well, give me the $400 and I won't ask you for anything else. I want to see you again, because I want to help you." Well, I am no dumb dog. He knew in January that I would have to meet a new deductible. This guy NEVER GIVES ME ANY BILLS. He just makes up figures as he goes.
***trigger***
This is what transpired on the last treatment visit. I just got out of the hospital for depression, he called me and said to come and see him for an adjustment. I went over there and he put this instrument between my legs saying it was for my back pain. I told him that I never heard of this type of treatment. While this thing was there clicking, he told me that he didn't understand why men raped women. I was thinking that this was totally inappropriate language to use with a patient. There was no one else in his office and I got angry. I told him, "If you think that clicker thing is doing anything for me or my back, you are sadly mistaken." I had just gotten out of the hospital and literally felt like I wasn't with it. He said in a demanding voice, "You need your back adjusted". As he went to do this, he almost fell down on top of his side table. I didn't know if he was drunk or what. He said now, you owe me $15.00. I said, "You stated that all I owed you for this year was $200, which is the deductible." (This was before my insurance said they wouldn't pay him a red cent.) He said, "Oh, that's right." Since then, he occasionally calls me and tells me that I am still responsible for my bill and that he would still like to treat me.
Posted by partlycloudy on June 16, 2004, at 7:13:48
In reply to A doc trying to bankrupt me!, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
Personally I think this doctor has to be reported immediately to the professional board he's accredited by.
And regarding your second post, I'm pretty certain it's illegal to not have a nurse present in the room during such a visit.
As far as the insurance issue goes: you're the person with the power here. The doc MUST supply you with the codes he uses for billing the insurance. I would demand a copy of all your records on file there (he'll probably charge you a buck a page, but do it anyway). Then I'd send that to your insurance company as backup for your complaint.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2004, at 7:16:39
In reply to More dirty deeds*trigger*, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:50:04
I don't think it would be too revealing if you gave what state you are in. This demands a formal complaint, as does the fraudulent billing episode. If we know what region you live in, we can help you find out the details of filing such complaints.
Lar
Posted by Susan J on June 16, 2004, at 10:14:15
In reply to A doc trying to bankrupt me!, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
Hey,
This guy is an absolute a** and probably a criminal. I'd second that motion to report him to his health occupation board, as well as your state's department of insurance. They usually adjudicate insurance matters like this. Also your state's Attorney General may be able to help out. I'd be reporting him to the world.
If by chance this happened in Maryland, I can help you out with this type of stuff.
You were treated wrongly and none of it is your fault. None of it.
Susan
Posted by spoc on June 16, 2004, at 10:24:13
In reply to A doc trying to bankrupt me!, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
Yes Shadows, I am CERTAIN you have recourse of several types available to you. When this doc sees that you are becoming informed of your rights and remedies I wouldn't be surprised if he puts his tail between his legs and just slithers away. But regardless, it all looks so blatant to me that hopefully it won't be an especially complicated battle.
I wish I had something concrete to say, but did want to express how sorry I am to hear about this. It involves stress on so many different levels that it has to be particularly hard to block out and get through the day. I'm pulling for you!
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 11:15:46
In reply to A doc trying to bankrupt me!, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:08:45
1. that sounded like a VERY UNORTHODOX if not completely BOGUS "treatment." You need to report him to the medical board. It sounds like he is trying to take advantage of you in your state, and that is WRONG and downright UNACCEPTABLE. Don't stand for it, okay?
2. Don't pay him a dime. Let him try to take you to court-- let a judge settle this. If you are unemployed, you may not be responsible for any of it, but regardless, the judge will NOT make you break the bank trying to pay him back. He can't make you lose your car, your house, your food, anything. If this guy is legit. Which it doesn't sound like he is. If he's not legit (likely), he'll probably give up and back off after awhile.
3. STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. You do NOT deserve to be treated like this. Report this jerk, okay?
I have a little bit of experience dealing with legal issues like this. if you need any help or want any support feel free to email me, okay? ghost at autoneurotic dot net. good luck and stay strong. because you don't deserve to be treated like this.
ghost
Posted by spoc on June 16, 2004, at 11:46:12
In reply to STOP! Don't pay him one penny! » shadows721, posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 11:15:46
Shadows, you might want to start with obtaining criminal and civil records searches on him in the counties where he works and lives. Hopefully he has lived/worked in the same ones consistently, or if there are others, you know them or can find out. If you discover that other people have tried to sue him over (or that he's been charged with) things of particular natures, that may help both your case and your confidence about it.
Let me know if you need more info on having those records checked, or Ghost may be thinking along those lines too. Or, you can go to this site and input the doc's county and state and get a list of industry-accredited local court document retrievers (hopefully this link will take you right to the search page):
http://www.brbpub.com/prrn/search.asp
Call firms on the list and you should be able to find one to check each type of record -- criminal and civil -- for between $15 and $20 each, per county. As long as his name isn't super common they should be able to do it without SSN and date of birth.
Your state department of professional regulation may have complaint listings too. Looking into the various ways of checking if a doctor is a bad seed may be a good place to start.
Posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 14:57:47
In reply to More dirty deeds*trigger*, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 2:50:04
I saw this guy a total of 6 times. I didn't think that I really saw all the signs at once. There were comments that were made on some occasions that didn't register until that day he pulled that put this thing right here number. I still don't think that was for my back. I never heard of putting a chi machine device between someone legs.
Over the course of only 6 short visits, I remember some other things. He told me that he was very selective in choosing his patients one time. He said that he is old enough to retire, so he doesn't want to get in a litigation. He said, "I have this feeling when I see someone". I did notice that he had NO staff. He said that he used to have a busy office, but now he just operates to help a few people. He said that he is very well off, so he doesn't even need to work at this point in his life. But, he loves to help people. His wife was there sometimes. He had few patients. He said his office was a mess, but it looked totally unused to me. He screamed into the phone one time and told someone to stop calling him and he explained that. He would call me up on a day that I didn't have an appt and ask if I was coming in. The second to last time I saw him I overheard his talking to a male patient that his wife shouldn't have interfered with calling the insurance company and could have screwed everything up.
When he did adjust my back, I did feel a defiant difference. Even my mother noticed that my back and head were more in line. I told him that on that last creepy visit and he said, "Yes, your head needs to line up with your cleavage." Again, I thought the terminology jumped out at me as wrong. He should have stated the sternum. I felt totally unsafe on that last visit. This cracker knew that I was just released from a Psych hospital for major depression. I had a discharge sheet in my hands upon my arrival and he grabbed it out of my hand and made a copy of it. I didn't like that either. The whole visit just didn't sit right with me, but I knew my mind wasn't 100%. I probably shouldn't even been driving that day, but he called me and said, "An adjustment will help you feel better physically." After the visit, I talked with my t. She made me realize just how vunerable I am with this depression problem.
I checked with the local Better Business Bureau and he has no reports. He has been in business for several decades. He is in Louisiana. I just don't want these outrageous bills to be put in a collection agency. I have an excellent credit hx.& I don't want it ruined by this nut.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2004, at 15:32:11
In reply to Re: More dirty deeds*trigger*, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 14:57:47
> I checked with the local Better Business Bureau and he has no reports. He has been in business for several decades. He is in Louisiana. I just don't want these outrageous bills to be put in a collection agency. I have an excellent credit hx.& I don't want it ruined by this nut.There are people here who will help you with the paperwork, how to write things....don't be afraid to ask.
You could email the following board, and without giving names, give a description of what happened, and ask them how to formally file a complaint.
LOUISIANA STATE BOARD OF CHIROPRACTIC EXAMINERS
8621 Summa Avenue
Baton Rouge, LA 70809
Phone: 225-765-2322
Fax: 225-765-2640
Email: isbce@eatel.netHere's the Louisiana Department of Insurance website, with complaints procedures:
http://www.ldi.state.la.us/And I think if you called this following 800 number, you could at least find out who can investigate the attempted fraud, if not also what seems to be criminal assault on your person.
Louisiana Attorney General
Consumer Protection Section
Livingston Building
1885 N. Third St.
Baton Rouge, LA 70802 P.O. Box 94095
Baton Rouge, LA 70804-9095
(225) 326-6465
(225) 326-6499 FAX
1-800-351-4889 CONSUMER HOTLINEGood luck.
Lar
Posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 17:26:18
In reply to Re: Here is some info » shadows721, posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2004, at 15:32:11
I told this guy before my 1st visit that I had an injury on the job. I am involved in a work comp litigation. I told him that I was unemployed due to the injury and the depression related to the pain. He said he would file with my insurance anyway. Well, as you know, the insurance paid zero. In my last conversation on the phone, I said to give me the info for my lawyer and so I could make an appeal. He said just use what you have. I said it has no codes just randum prices. He went into this long sermon on codes. I told him that I use to bill for a doc and it's not a big process. That's when he brought up about the $400 for another doctor reading the report. I yelled at him, "I have told you numberous times that I am unemployed and I have no money." He yelled back, "I am not eating your costs woman!" Then he changed his tone and said, "I really want to see you again and I have been thinking about you a lot. Let's make an appointment next week." I hung up.
This is a screw ball situation. In my litation process, the opposing side has raked through all my psych records. Funny how no one else, but work comp can legally do this. Now, I have this situation. I don't know where to turn. I guess he read me as a trusting sucker. That's what I feel like. I have been to chiropractors before and had nothing like this happen. Was he trying to make a mint off me, the insurance, or a possible litigation? I just don't know what he is thinking. All I want for the litigation is for them to do a test on my back to check my disk, which they refuse to do. They are sending me for a psych eval though. My back is on fire, but I have to be checked for psych. HmmmmI am sorry this is so long. I am so tired of all this confusion.
Thank you Larry for supplying that info.
P.S. The man has changed his sign to read he takes care of on the job injuries too.
Posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 19:19:27
In reply to Re: More dirty deeds*trigger*, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 14:57:47
you need to get a lawyer, hon. you really do. this is just sounding sketchier and sketchier. you need to print out everything you've told us and show it to a lawyer. it sounds like you have a real case on your hands, and he has NO right to treat you this way.
also, don't worry about your credit. if you have pristine credit, ONE bill is NOT going to hurt you-- you always have the right to add something/explanation to your credit report, as well, so you can write a brief note sticking up for yourself, IF he even bothers-- which it doesnt sound like he will. it sounds to me more like he'd just eat the debt, because i think he knows what he's doing is wrong. (and this debt isn't even legitimate with his unorthodox practices, if you ask me.)
but even if he does try to hurt your credit, the worst that will happen is that you'll have a delinquent debt on your account from a medical "professional" (loose term, in this case)-- that's nothing compared to a bunch of good reports from credit cards, mortgages, whatever else you've got.
you need to seek some legal help here. there are lawyers that will work only if you win, or take on pro bono cases especially for something like this. perhaps your T can refer you to a local one.
GOOD LUCK. Keep us posted, and keep venting here. We're all thinking good thoughts for you to get out of this mess. (i also hope you can get an eval of your back, too, not just of your head. it sounds like the pain is abundant in your life on all fronts.)
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2004, at 9:21:50
In reply to Re: one more issue with this man, posted by shadows721 on June 16, 2004, at 17:26:18
> Thank you Larry for supplying that info.
You're welcome. How are you doing now?
It seems like a huge burden to address this mess, but you can break it down into manageable pieces, and we can help with some of it, too.
You can move mountains.....one stone at a time.
Lar
Posted by gardenergirl on June 19, 2004, at 11:19:17
In reply to Re: More dirty deeds*trigger* » shadows721, posted by ghost on June 16, 2004, at 19:19:27
shadows,
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. It sounds like a nightmare, not to mention an ongoing stressor.I agree with everyone else who posted that this guy is not legit. To me, the primary issue is less the money he is requesting, but rather the inappropriate (actually, criminal IMO) treatment he gave you. I think you should go with your gut, and if you feel it's not right or if it feels creepy, it probably is.
It certainly sounds to me like he picks his patients specifically for those he feels he can manipulate. And your T is right in how depression makes you more vulnerable to someone like that.
Please continue to gather information and document, document, document. A good lawyer will also help you with this. And Lar is right that there should be no charge to you until the case is resolved. The lawyer then will take a percentage of any settlement.
In addition, you can write a letter to this man explaining that you will not provide any payment until you verify his credentials and seek an opinion on the appropriateness of his treatment. You can also request he not contact you by phone in this letter. We can help you write it, or your lawyer can.
In addition, I would urge you to report his actions during treatment to the attorney general or police. I'm sure this is all very difficult, and as someone with a psych. diagnosis and history, you are more vulnerable to having your history examined and perhaps exploited. But there are protections for you in the courts.
This guy really sounds like a predator. I'm sorry that you were exposed to him. No one deserves to be treated like that.
In the meantime, please take extra gentle care of yourself. As I'm sure you experienced with your othe litigation, it is an ongoing hassle and source of stress. Please let us know how we can help.
(((shadows)))
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 12:06:03
In reply to Re: More dirty deeds*trigger*, posted by gardenergirl on June 19, 2004, at 11:19:17
Posted by shadows721 on June 23, 2004, at 0:39:35
In reply to shadows, How are you doing? (nm), posted by gardenergirl on June 22, 2004, at 12:06:03
I sent that old cracker a letter today in the mail. I told him all the facts about his figures. I stated that he would have to contact me via mail. I am not talking to that man in person or on the phone. My hubby said he sounded drunk out of his mind on the message machine. I think he has a speech problem. I don't know, but I can't understand him to save my own life.
Anyway, if he wants me to appeal his fees, he will have to give me a lot of data on paper to send to the insurance company. It will be interesting to see what his next move will be.
Thanks for asking GG. :-)
Posted by ghost on June 23, 2004, at 8:19:02
In reply to Re: shadows, How are you doing?, posted by shadows721 on June 23, 2004, at 0:39:35
you're handling this very well. i'm proud!
Posted by gardenergirl on June 23, 2004, at 11:32:04
In reply to good for you!! » shadows721, posted by ghost on June 23, 2004, at 8:19:02
This is the end of the thread.
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