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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rachel11 on April 25, 2004, at 21:09:49
My boyfriend and I have been dating for a year. He has Obsessive-Compulsive disorder, but is on meds for this, and it does not seem to be too big of a problem right now. However, every few months, he becomes depressed for a few days to several weeks. He becomes very quiet and will hardly talk to me, or if he does he is ornery. When he is depressed, he also feels bad about himself and has low self-esteem. I feel very alone when he is like this. I love him very much, and when he is not depressed we get along well, care about each other, and have a lot of fun together. But when he is depressed, its like he isn't even there. He is planning to see a therapist, but I don't know how much it will help. We have talked about marriage, but I don't know if I can deal with this for the rest of my life. Any advice or experiences?
Posted by spoc on April 27, 2004, at 9:08:33
In reply to My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by rachel11 on April 25, 2004, at 21:09:49
> ...I love him very much, and when he is not depressed we get along well, care about each other, and have a lot of fun together. But when he is depressed, its like he isn't even there. He is planning to see a therapist, but I don't know how much it will help. We have talked about marriage, but I don't know if I can deal with this for the rest of my life. Any advice or experiences?
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Hi rachel11, I can only speak from kinda your boyfriend's perspective. I have ended some serious relationships because I could tell the person was really counting on and gambling on assuming someday I would become what they wanted. That I would be, for instance, more consistent, energetic and able to flow with them and life. As by faaaar the rule, rather than the exception. In the end, it exacerbated my own condition too much to know I "had" to be able to virtually promise permanent change. Between downswings, people who don't have these problems even have a way of innocently asking you (and expecting you to be able to answer) that it is in the past this time. But that promise can't *ever* be made, so the expectation is highly upsetting for both.But of course everyone's chances for making big permanent changes are different. And a lot depends on the way the person, here being your boyfriend, approaches it. In my case, I much prefer (and as a matter of fact, even ENsure) that I get to be alone during much of a period when I can't flow. I will try to be alone and am probably "too" content to be alone, even in good times. With that being my natural tendency, it was less likely that I would try as hard as humanly possibly to drag myself out and fix myself however I could for someone else's sake.
When I feel overwhelmed by everything, including how to get help and where to begin, I just want us to maintain a "skeleton schedule" together and see each other more when times swing up for me again. That's not how someone should be as part of a couple, so I seal my own fate. So if your boyfriend wants to get help and start seeing a therapist and is motivated to do so pretty equally for both of your sakes, I would have faith and talk/act as if you have faith for now. Unless he soon starts backtracking on the commitment to getting help -- or seeing only the bad in it -- I would try to believe. At least something *is* going to be done differently this time, which is the only way to find out.
And even if therapy didn't help him change a lot, I think some people whose problems make their emotional or physical availability somewhat inconsistent can still do ok in a relationship with someone who doesn't need their life together to be of the extremely traditional type only (i.e., defined roles and being able to know that they will stay reliably in place).
Good luck to you both! :- )
Posted by Ivan Michael on April 29, 2004, at 11:30:31
In reply to My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by rachel11 on April 25, 2004, at 21:09:49
Wow. I don't reallie know how to respond to that. to tell you the truth, i'm kinda like that too. the problem is, i'm like that a lot. i have constant mood swings and the littlest thing will set me off. when i'm upset i dont want to talk to anieone and my girlfriend hates it. i get reallie quiet and she tries to figure out whats wrong. most of the time i dont even remember. i hate it and i know that its not fair to her. i love her. i love her more than aniething. i wish i didnt put more pressure on her than she alreadie has. i feel so bad at times. I'v thought about breaking up with her because i dont want her to worrie about me or have to deal with me. in the end i dont. if it weren't for us meeting, i think that we'd both be dead. i dont reallie have an answer to your question. i'm sorrie that you have to go through this. i'll always be here to talk to. i wish that i could do more, but all i can do for now is say that i hope it all works out in the end and that your love pulls through over all. if it is true love, it should. true love is the most powerful thing ever seen under god. i hope you work it out. post me sometime. Ivan.
Posted by rachel11 on May 2, 2004, at 1:54:18
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by Ivan Michael on April 29, 2004, at 11:30:31
Thanks for sharing your experiences Spoc and Micheal Ivan.
It's getting to the point where I need to talk to my boyfriend about why I am not ready to get married right now. It is still definitely an option, but everyone keeps bugging us about it, and mostly him, when in reality, I am the one who is not ready. I don't really think he knows how much his depression/mood swings affect me, since I seem stable all the time. I want to tell him, so that I'm not leaving him hanging, and so we can start to work on things together, but I'm not sure exactly what to say. I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking him for things that are out of control, or criticizing him. However, I feel like I need to let him know how he affects me, and how I am really afraid of how these things could affect our life together. Any tips on what to say, or what not to say?
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2004, at 9:43:29
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by rachel11 on May 2, 2004, at 1:54:18
Rachel, don't feel bad about that. Marriage is way more than two people in love or two people wanting to be together forever or anything like that. Marriage is a societal and personal commitment and should be based on a healthy dose of common sense as well as genuine feeling.
The truth is that his depression will affect your raising kids, he behavior around kids, his ability to help you. Your life in a lot of ways other than kids. It will affect your social life. It will affect your own mood. My father was depressed on and off (mostly on) all my life, and the whole family paid a price.
None of that alone is reason not to marry him, but it is reason to do it with caution and a lot of conversations beforehand, perhaps with a couples counselor. Even if you weren't having problems now, I think a couples counselor would be able to give you an idea of what you're getting into.
My husband and I dated a long time. My main problem wasn't depression, but anxiety and phobias. When I raised the subject of marriage, he sat me down and we had a very unromantic and businesslike (and totally appropriate) discussion of expectations. His marrying me was frankly contingent on things like my taking responsibility for not letting my fear of vomit get in the way of childrearing. Therapy, whatever it took, here were his expectations. I had a few of my own. We negotiated like diplomats over a peace treaty. And I appreciated that he was sensible enough to do that. Here was a man that took marriage seriously and intended to be in it for the long haul.
Medications, therapy, and just maturity in aging a bit all help a lot with depression and mood swings. If he's serious about marrying you, he should be able to make a commitment to get whatever help he needs to be the husband to you and the father to his future kids that he wants to be.
Which is not to say that everything will be perfect after that. It won't be. It isn't in my marriage, although I can't say it's all my problems. Healthy people contribute their own problems to a marriage. :) But it's a sign of good faith. A sign of commitment. A sign that he is willing to work to be the best he can be.
Ok, off my pet peeve. I know a lot of people would consider the attitude my husband and I took towards marriage to be vastly unromantic, but it worked well enough for us. And yes, I can manage my vomit phobia enough to do what I need to do. :)
Posted by spoc on May 3, 2004, at 7:44:09
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by rachel11 on May 2, 2004, at 1:54:18
Hi Rachel,
It sounds like your boyfriend is the one pressing for answers about your relationship. Hopefully, you have a feel for the strength of his commitment to getting help by now, and perhaps can also look at his general follow-through abilities in other areas. If you've never said much about how his issues trouble you before, I agree it is a hard thing to bring up as well as to hear. But he needs to realize, at least eventually, that it's an important thing to cover for both your sakes. And if he doesn't, it may show something about his ability and willingness to handle these things as best he can. It sounds like you've put a lot of yourself into him, and he should try to reciprocate where he can.
I agree with everything Dinah said about realistic negotiations, and she covered it so well that from that perspective, there's not much I can add. So I'll add more perspective on the dynamics between just one couple dealing with the depression and mood swings of one of them, namely my ex-fiance and myself. But remember, I'm the one who wasn't committed to getting help, for his sake or my own.
I have grown up a lot since then (or least, having 'indulged' myself in living alone ever since, I believe I have!), but at that time, he would often "have to" cajole, dance, serve, tickle, entertain or motivate me out of whatever state I had gotten into. Lying in bed staring at the wall for long periods; being unreasonable and unreachable; or whatever it was I was doing. Sometimes I would then come around. At times I would even find myself giggling at his sweet and silly attempts to snap me out of myself, and occasionally feel so much better after awhile that I would get in a much better mood and agree to go somewhere he wanted to with him.
But not infrequently, after we got there, some kind of passive agressive behavior on his part would set in. Like stopping to look at something while I continued walking and talking to him, not realizing he wasn't there, and he knew it. Sometimes I would have a hard time finding him when I started looking. And it was definitely not in fun. He could also become aloof and sarcastic.
Or, for the remainder of the day, he might without a word resist letting a really good vibe take over, being uncooperative and pretending to be adverse to things and suggestions that he was in reality always in the mood for. Like a favorite restaurant, store or type of movie when we were trying to decide on something. But if a friend of his came over during this time, he would suddenly be greatly in the mood for whatever the thing was that I couldn't get him interested in.
None of these things reflected what he was really like. I know that it was just the stress of what he had gone through to pull me up finally taking its toll on him once the effort had made a dent in me, and I seemed safe and reasonably interested in life again.
Ultimately, and even after we were older and that kind of thing wasn't happening as much anymore, we did part, for reasons that at the time I didn't think were directly related to my issues. What had mainly happened was that, although I loved him very much as a person, I had lost my attraction to him. And I knew that in our case and at that time, neither one of us could have been happy that way for long.
At the time I could only guess that what had happened was that we had met when we were pretty young -- and I had gone through so many phases and felt like I had grown up with him -- that eventually even though we were more compatible than ever, I had come to think of him more as family than a love interest.
But now I wonder if in reality, I had come to think of him as a caretaker (which wasn't sexy for either of us), and one who knew too much. Old patterns were easy for both of us to anticipate and slip into at the first sign of conflict, and we didn't have intimacy to help hold us together anymore. I think I wanted to disassociate myself from what I had been like, and see what it felt like to be with people who didn't know those things. In his eyes, I guess I couldn't stop seeing reflected back at me the person I didn't want to be seen as anymore. Even when he wasn't giving any indication of seeing me that way. And I felt like I would always continue to lean on him, but with ever decreasing reward for him.
These are just the ways in which my own problems affected one serious relationship. But I was immature and never really tried to get help at all. It wasn't ages ago or anything, but at the time I don't seem to recall therapy and various treatments being a common thing (or maybe just a commonly admitted thing) amongst people my age, which now it obviously is amongst all ages and demographics. Things have come a long way since then! :- )
Posted by fallsfall on May 3, 2004, at 8:48:12
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy! » rachel11, posted by spoc on May 3, 2004, at 7:44:09
Very insightful description of a changing relationship. Thanks for sharing.
Falls.
Posted by rachel11 on May 22, 2004, at 13:32:28
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by Ivan Michael on April 29, 2004, at 11:30:31
How effective is therapy for someone with recurring depression/dysthymia?
I've talked to my boyfriend a couple times about how his moodiness/depression is really hard for me. He feels really bad and embarrassed about it, but doesn't feel like there is much he can do about it. He thinks I'm expecting something of him that he cannot give (more stability). Last night he said he felt like he was stressing me out too much. We could have broken up right then and there, but instead I told him I didn't expect perfection, we just needed to work on it. I'm still not sure if that was the right thing to say, or weakness on my part.
He has been looking into some counseling. I know I can't take things this way anymore. Does anyone have any experiences with overcoming depression, at least somewhat?
Posted by spoc on May 23, 2004, at 14:42:46
In reply to Re: My boyfriend's depression is driving me crazy!, posted by rachel11 on May 22, 2004, at 13:32:28
> How effective is therapy for someone with recurring depression/dysthymia?....
> He has been looking into some counseling. I know I can't take things this way anymore. Does anyone have any experiences with overcoming depression, at least somewhat?<<<<<Hi Rachel,
I understand how extremely frustrating that has to be. I'm not a good one to ask, since as you read, I haven't done all or even much of whatever I could have for myself. I guess someone who is pretty much "untreated" like me can feel totally discouraged about the chances of long-lasting change after sooooo many years, and be fooled by that into never trying. But it is probably fair to say I am making that assessment through faulty/clouded vision, created by my very conditions themselves. It's not always likely that we're going to be able to "pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps."
But, I just wanted to suggest that your question may be better addressed as a new thread (with a title making it a question, more so than this one does). I think you could even post it on the Psych board, where people may respond with more citations of what they've tried/been through, and intensive answers in general. If you want to carry over the conversations already on this thread, maybe you could include a link to it, but have posts go on Psych? Or just quote anything you found especially illustrative/relevant. Just thoughts -- I'm sure the issue speaks clearly enough for itself without references! (See, I'm an obsessive compulsive perfectionist too!)
I'm trying to limit my online time so may not be checking back much, but good luck. I do feel for you.... and him.... and me! It's all such a shame, to say the least!
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