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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
It's not that I'm not tired (usually exhausted) when it's time for me to go to bed at night, but for the past couple of weeks I've been having a terrible time actually falling asleep. Now I've been through a sleep study, and I don't have sleep apnea or restless limbs, and I've taken lots of meds and supplements (both scripts and OTC), and my general feeling is that they either don't work OR they leave me groggy the next day.
Of course, I've gotten the 'exercise' lecture before, but that's not likely to happen any time soon, and I lay off of caffeine in the evenings if I can, so that shouldn't be the problem. I've been trying listening to soothing music, but that hasn't really helped, and reading doesn't make me sleepy. Some nights I can't even lay in my bed (or is that 'lie' in my bed?), so I'll get up and go sit in my rocking chair in the living room until I get a little sleepier.
The sleep doc's recommendation was 'warm milk, melatonin, or 2.5 mgs of ambien.' Yeah, sure.
Anyway, I know many of the folks on this board have problems with sleep - so if you have found something non-medication related that works, would you mind sharing? I'm trying to see if there's anything I haven't tried/thought of yet.
thanks, and sweet dreams.
P
Posted by Susan J on December 2, 2003, at 14:18:03
In reply to Sleepytime suggestions, anyone?, posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
Hi,
I've been having trouble sleeping, too. Mine's related to Wellbutrin.
> It's not that I'm not tired (usually exhausted)
<<I think being over exhausted also impedes sleep. Not sure why, but if I've had a psycho day, it might take up to 2 hours for me to fall asleep.And after getting my first friggin flu shot of my life, Friday (morning!), I couldn't get to sleep to save my life! I was up until 4am the next day! Better be worth it... :-)
What I do:
>No caffeine after noon. None. Sux, I know.
>Get on a very specific schedule. Always up at 6:30, always eat dinner at 6:30pm, always finish exercise before 9pm, always in bed by 11pm.
>No stimulating books/movies/whatever that holds your interest.
>A warm/hot bath at night is relaxing. Perhaps an hour before you go to bed.
>I know you don't want to or can't exercise, but unfortunately, this helps me the most. Even a brisk half hour walk after dinner.
>OTC anti-histamine.
>Not eating past 9pm at night. Don't eat big meals ever. Graze. :-)
>Stretching before bed.
>Pitch dark room, no music, no TV, no light from the streets.
>Well balanced diet. I'm beefing up on healthy fats these days, walnuts and fish and olive oil, and no refined foods (cakes/candy/fast food), and I feel, physically, so much better.Good luck. The lack of sleep has got to be one of the most frustrating, stressful things I can think of sometimes. It just drains you of energy to do what you need to do, and weakens your body (at least I know I get sick a lot more when sleepless).
Take care,
Susan
Posted by Wildflower on December 2, 2003, at 14:19:21
In reply to Sleepytime suggestions, anyone?, posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
Oh Penny, I know EXACTLY how you feel. I don't have an exact answer for you but here's what has been suggested to me:
Dramimine
Antihistimines
Tylenol PM
Warm milk
Valerian root
Melatonin (actually kept me up)
Relaxing bath before bed
Exercise (this made it worse for me)Also, many herbal stores have natural remedies (other than valerian root). They didn't work for me but perhaps they would for you.
I had to resort to Ambien but that didn't seem to help much. All it did was make me lightheaded and it didn't keep me asleep all night.
Wish I could be more help. Insomnia is not a fun thing to go through.
Posted by Poet on December 2, 2003, at 16:30:35
In reply to Sleepytime suggestions, anyone?, posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
Hi Penny,
I always have trouble sleeping, it's not the Paxil, it's me.
Ambien works for me- 10mg, I take it only if 50-100mg of Trazodone doesn't do the trick.
I didn't have much luck with melatonin. Though my husband takes one and he's out for the night. I probably didn't take enough of them to be effective on me.
Try turning your alarm clock away from the bed. I find it easier to fall asleep when I'm not staring at the clock all night long. Plus the room is darke without the glow of the red LED readout in my face.
On nights when nothing does the trick, I get out of bed and read or watch TV until I feel sleepy again.
I hope you sleep well.
Poet
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 2, 2003, at 18:16:37
In reply to Re: Sleepytime suggestions, anyone? » Penny, posted by Poet on December 2, 2003, at 16:30:35
I have a hard time sleeping for years. I did:
a hot bath (now my skin screams)
melatonin under the tongue 2.5mg
(makes my dreams so vivid)
I have gone to Ambien
(10mg but I break them in 1/2 and when the melatonin wears off I take this)
It seems like a huge gift to sleep through the night. I was becoming someone else when I laid awake all night. Then I took everything and it sometimes worked sometimes not.
This new schedule seems to work now...who knows about the future.
I can't do: Valerin, melatonin alone, tylenol pm alone, etc.
I know this will probably not be the answer forever but it's working right now.
I killed my TV. I don't see visually disturbing movies or read those type of books or accept that kind of e-mail. I am filtering everything. I need calm easy energy...healing music...a life out of the main steam. I need to rest deeply.
It's a hard topic that lots of people are stuggling with right now. I have such empathy for those of us who are awake...
Jai Narayan
Posted by fallsfall on December 2, 2003, at 19:26:51
In reply to Sleepytime suggestions, anyone?, posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
There are three different reasons why I can't sleep. Some nights it is one, some nights another, some nights more than one. Each reason has a different remedy.
1. Prozac gives me insomnia. With this one I just can't get my brain into a sleep state. I'm tired, but not sleeping.
Solution: Sonata (I can't take Ambien)2. Restless legs (again from Prozac). This can also morph into a general I can't get comfortable no matter what position I try. Stretching doesn't help. It drives me crazy!
Solution: Neurontin usually fixes the restless legs. BUT sometimes I need 2 Neurontin. Sometimes I take a pain reliever (I take a prescription NSAID, but Tylenol might do, too) and that helps. There are many times when a pain reliever will do it for me, but I *Wasn't* aware that I was in any pain.3. Anxiety. Thoughts running through my head, problems to be solved, things to be remembered, words, thoughts, they don't stop.
Solution:
A. Journalling - sometimes writing it down allows me to get it out of my head (it seems to stick to the paper). Then I know it will be there if I forget it in the morning.
B. Relax to sleep tape. Guided imagery. First they have you lie down and breathe. Then you take all your problems and put them in a strong box (I described this recently in a post...can't find it now...) and put the cover on. Then they have you relax each part of your body one at a time. Then calm music and ocean noises.
C. Lorazepam (Ativan). The big hammer.I would try some Tylenol and see if you have some pain that you aren't aware of. It always amazes me when that is what does it.
If it has gone on too long, get up and go somewhere else for a little while.
ZZZzzzzzzzzz
Posted by fallsfall on December 3, 2003, at 8:28:49
In reply to Re: Sleepytime suggestions, anyone? » Penny, posted by fallsfall on December 2, 2003, at 19:26:51
Posted by Penny on December 3, 2003, at 10:10:18
In reply to So, Penny, did you sleep last night? (nm), posted by fallsfall on December 3, 2003, at 8:28:49
Thanks, all, for your recommendations. Ironically, I got to my therapist's office last night and in the waiting room I saw that the cover story on Psychology Today's December issue was sleep. So I glanced over it fairly quickly while I was waiting to see her. Here's a link to the article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/htdocs/prod/PTOArticle/pto-20031028-000007.asp
But what I found more interesting were the tips they listed for getting better sleep. Here's a link to some of them, that were printed earlier, apparently:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/htdocs/prod/ptoarticle/pto-20031020-000001.asp
Anyway, the main thing I tried last night was to just not worry about sleep. I had to babysit, so I didn't get home until later than usual, and I didn't get to bed until entirely too late, and, yes, I am paying for it today. I'm so sleepy - I rolled into work an hour late and it was SOOOOOO hard to get out of my warm bed this morning! Right now I just want to go home and go back to bed. Sigh.
I didn't sleep all through the night - I still woke up a few times - but I did fall asleep more easily last night than I have in a while. So, that was good. But I really want to go back to bed now!!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
P
Posted by 8 Miles on December 6, 2003, at 17:38:55
In reply to Sleepytime suggestions, anyone?, posted by Penny on December 2, 2003, at 13:55:52
Gee Penny. I've been dealing with insomnia for the past 15 years or so, and I have tried about everything medical and non-medical with mixed or limited positive effects. I take some Tranzene, which may help "soothe" me a little. Have gone the Halcion route, which caused some other problems (as it has been known to do). Ambien for several years in middle 90's (10 mg). Sonata (too short of a half-life and causes early morning waking). Deseryl (trazodone) off and on several times (right now I'm working my way up from 50 to 200 mgs on Pdoc's suggestion). When I started back on it a month or so ago, at just 50 mg, it seemed to REALLY help. I usually wake up 5-6 times per night, and it had me done to twice. Will see how increasing the dosage works out. It CAN make one a bit groggy in the morning, but is fairly harmless for long-term use. Benadryl used to work OK, but it tends to dry me out, and exacerbate urinary retention. Back in the old days, they would have slapped you with some barbitute that would have zonked you out pretty well, but I think they frown on that and the other hypnotics. Too many ODs? I do the exercise thing, but I am not sure what that does for my sleep. My problem is more shutting off my brain from thinking about EVERYTHING. It just won't shut down. Anxiety, stress all that...what can one do? Basically, as an OCD type, I WORRY so much about sleep (or lack thereof). I know I haven't offered any epithanies here, but knowing that there are millions like us at least takes some of the lost and hopeless feelings away. Let me know how things progress for you.
8
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