![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Alara on April 4, 2003, at 5:21:07
It's pathetic.
We applaud our allied `heroes' for rescuing one pretty, American young woman. Meanwhile our TV stations revel in our `victories': Many hundreds of innocent Iraqui men, women and children killed in the name of war. Somehow, those hundreds of lives pale into insignificance compared to that one sacred American life...See, these people are not human beings but statistics. They're just gory trophies for the blind forces who soldier on, in the name of their country..We never see the victims' faces in detail because our governments are too busy trying to lay on the propoganda.Here's a paradox: Terrorists in our society are supposedly evil. The definition of a terrorist is a person who plots to kill an innocent civilian. Yet our allied forces conspire to kill the same number of `enemy' human beings who died in the World Trade Towers.
Our allied forces are not terrorists? This is not about power and control?All day at work, people play power games,trying to disarm one another in order to gain promotion and power. Finding a way of working together in order to meet common goals is the last thig on people's minds...
The parallels are sad and condemning.
I can't help but ask: What is wrong with the human race? Why are people so greedy? Did I expect too much from others?
Feeling seriously jaded on my 33rd birthday.
And people wonder why I spend so much time with my cat.
Posted by sienna on April 4, 2003, at 15:09:27
In reply to This war and the sad human race. Vent, posted by Alara on April 4, 2003, at 5:21:07
Well Alara, i hope your birthday gets better. I like hanging with my cats too. I know the world is all messed up. Im not sure how it got this way or how to fix it. All i knowthat i can do is do all i can for people and sometimes that is just to smile at people and be friendly. But i think that carries weight. Its that think globally act locally thing. Just do what you can. Unfortunatly we cant control the world. Just can influence our little corner of it.
sienna
Posted by IsoM on April 4, 2003, at 18:03:37
In reply to This war and the sad human race. Vent, posted by Alara on April 4, 2003, at 5:21:07
Alara, my son sent me a quote in my email. They must be discussing the war at work. Sad how it applies no matter what country or time period one lives in.
"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
Posted by gabbix2 on April 5, 2003, at 16:13:44
In reply to Re: War and Justification » Alara, posted by IsoM on April 4, 2003, at 18:03:37
Alara I think your post was profound
and thanks IsoM for the quote, I'd never heard it before. Scary
Posted by Alara on April 6, 2003, at 7:36:31
In reply to Re: War and Justification » Alara, posted by IsoM on April 4, 2003, at 18:03:37
> Alara, my son sent me a quote in my email. They must be discussing the war at work. Sad how it applies no matter what country or time period one lives in.
>
> "Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
That's so sad, IsoM. But so true.
Posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 10:14:11
In reply to This war and the sad human race. Vent, posted by Alara on April 4, 2003, at 5:21:07
> It's pathetic.
War is hell.
> We applaud our allied `heroes' for rescuing one pretty, American young woman.>>>> Now you see. We will send our troops after one 19 year old girl; we should have just left her, huh? They are big time Heroes as well as her. She emptied her M-16 on Iraqi soldiers. This is a war. Our soldiers will die to rescue one American. The Navy Seals, with help from other Elite Troops went behind enemy lines, risking all their butts for a 19 year old girl. Would you prefer this 'pretty'(tough as a boot)patriotic soldier be left with a gunshot wound, many broken bones, etc be left with the Iraqi's? The only reason for them to keep her alive would be to rape her over and over? I promise you, she'd be gang raped and tortured to death. We will send whatever it takes to rescue you or me if we were nabbed overseas. Spend millions of taxpayer dollars to save ONE person.
Meanwhile our TV stations revel in our `victories': Many hundreds of innocent Iraqui men, women and children killed in the name of war.
>>>>The U.S. goes WAY out of it's way NOT to kill civilians but it's a war, it happens.
Do you think Saddam is a nice guy to his people? We are going to save their ass. They act unappreciative so the Replican Guard doesn't hang them in the village square.Somehow, those hundreds of lives pale into insignificance compared to that one sacred American life...See, these people are not human beings but statistics.
>>>> Have you read about Saddam and his released soldiers? Do you think Iraqi's love this guy? They are/were scared to death of him. Disagree with him, you're dead. But yes, to get Saddam out and give the Iraqi's a LIFE again, lives will be lost. They are not statistics.
They're just gory trophies for the blind forces who soldier on, in the name of their country..We never see the victims' faces in detail because our governments are too busy trying to lay on the propoganda.
>>>> Blind forces in the name of their country? These are our children. You might want to thank God you live here. In Iraq, women are treated like dogs or women and children are used as shields to keep Saddam's
released prisoners alive.
>
> Here's a paradox: Terrorists in our society are supposedly evil.>>>>Supposedly?
The definition of a terrorist is a person who plots to kill an innocent civilian. Yet our allied forces conspire to kill the same number of `enemy' human beings who died in the World Trade Towers.
>>> Our allied forces are not terrorists? We don't plot to kill civilians, for Christ's sake.All day at work, people play power games,trying to disarm one another in order to gain promotion and power. Finding a way of working together in order to meet common goals is the last thig on people's minds...
This is not Dilbert, it's a war.
Work isn't gassing Kurds and killing your own people or killing your Olympic athletes because they didn't get a medal. This is about a dictator on the level of Hitler who would kill you and me in a second. Quit watching TV and read about Saddam.
>
> The parallels are sad and condemning.>>>>I think not.
> I can't help but ask: What is wrong with the human race? Why are people so greedy? Did I expect too much from others?
>>>>Ask the French, who would be German now, if it weren't for the U.S. dying by the 1000's to save their lazy asses. Allied troops along side ours. Were we greedy sending our children to fight for YOUR freedom? The U.S. is the most giving country in the world but yes, we'll kill the bad guys. An Iraqi lawyer saved the female soldier by walking 6 miles through a suicide corridor to tell our Marines. He couldn't stand seeing her beaten. Read that again.
>
> Feeling seriously jaded on my 33rd birthday.>>You aren't jaded but I will say this, freedom isn't free and war isn't nice but I can promise you, if you were Iraqi, your perspective would be altered immensely. Happy birthday.
>
> And people wonder why I spend so much time with my cat.>>>>Me, too. My cat is cool.
I'm against war and the U.S. has made mistakes. Once we commit to a war, now the German's agree with us, I back our troops 100%. Not our politician's, OUR TROOPS. It would make you feel better to pray for the troops instead of demonizing them...they are kids for the most part.
Read your history. We demonize the U.S. and Britian and think Saddam's a pussycat. Vent anti-Saddam, pre-invasion, to his troops, you'd be dead before you finished the sentence.
This is my country too. This ain't Vietnam.
This is getting rid of a dictator who trains terrorist, kills his own family and would blow this country up given enough time.
Posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 10:20:35
In reply to Re: War and Justification » Alara, posted by IsoM on April 4, 2003, at 18:03:37
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/goering.html
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 10:52:57
In reply to This war and the sad human race. Vent, posted by Alara on April 4, 2003, at 5:21:07
I also was distressed by your comparison of our troops to terrorists.
Our troops are being tricked by Iraqi suicide bombers *because* they value human life. Iraqi "elite troops" are hiding behind the skirts of Iraqi schoolgirls *because* they know that coalition forces find the death of civilians abhorrent.
I know far more veterans from the WWII conflict than the Vietnam conflict, possibly because WWII veterans are being encouraged to tell their stories. I've also read some of their stories. I know that all these years later the thoughts of being shot at, how close they came to dying, remain with them. But the thoughts of shooting, the memories of the lives they took, haunt them far more - so much so that the very macho father of one of my friends still tears up and changes the subject.
I suspect that our soldiers there now feel the same.
My brother (if his story is to be believed), is now being trained to possibly go over there. And if he does, he may have to kill. But he's not a terrorist. He's many things, but he's no terrorist. He would never revel in taking lives of civilians going about their daily business. I doubt he would revel in taking the life of an Iraqi soldier who is doing his job and may feel he is defending his country.
War is horrible. No one likes the death and disruption of lives it brings to the people of the country. No one rejoices in the death of soldiers doing their duty as they see it. Well, almost nobody.
You know, when you talk about the sanctity of American life as opposed to Iraqi life, that argument goes both ways. My initial opposition to this war came from the idea that we should mind our own business. Keep to the sanctions. Not put at risk the lives of young American men and women, the sons and daughters and husbands and wives and mothers and fathers of Americans. And that was as selfish and lacking in compassion for the people of Iraq as I could possibly be.
Saddam Hussein is responsible for the death or "disappearance" of *hundreds of thousands*, let me repeat that *hundreds of thousands* of Iraqis. (Source Amnesty Intl) He invaded his neighboring country of Kuwait with no regard for their sovereignty. (Source known history) He was a threat to others of his neighboring countries by his own past actions. (Source known history) The UN sanctions and the resulting misadministration of the oil for food program under his control was responsible for an immensely high infant mortality rate. (Source Amnesty Intl)
Does that justify the invasion of a sovereign country, even one with which we had never signed a peace settlement after a war started by them - only a cease fire? I don't know. Is the trading of the civilian lives inadvertantly caused by our soldiers, and the military lives directly caused by our soldiers, for the lives of those who would undoubtedly been killed or died from malnutrition under Saddam's regime right? I don't know.
But I do know that while speaking of our soldiers as terrorists may be your right under the constitution, it isn't a correct or fair comparison.
And Dr. Bob, why did you make me post this?
Posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
In reply to Re: Oh, he's a nice, quoteable guy! » IsoM, posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 10:20:35
It's normal not to want war. It's normal not to trust leaders. It's right and just to want peace. I have no issue there.
But I, many of you too have had family die to keep this country free. It isn't anti-American to disagree with war.
Just don't tell me our troops are evil and mindless and that one American life isn't worth saving.
Other countries call us selfish warmongers and God knows what else.
What will we be when we die for your country when an unprovoked missle hits a major city in your country? Or your subways are gassed or you lose 3000 in an attack? Maybe you will handle it on your own. Good luck.
People say American's are materialistic, bad guys who push around anyone they want for fun. We're a decadant country and all we want is money, money and more money.
Well, you're hearing American's on this board. Bottom line is America will die to save a friends ass before they have to ask. I've lost too many friends and family to sit by and listen to this crap that all we want is to kill civilians in #'s to match 9/11. Saddam trains terrorist and we kill them.
You can be against war, everyone is. The fact is, if we never fought a war, where would the world be? I'm not sure, maybe Hitler's pals could tell us.
Or, while Saddam is living the very rich life, smoking Cuban cigars as he tortures another innocent dirt poor Iraqi and applauding at 9/11, you could ask him why he's been so successful at running his country? We didn't start this. It started before Saddam was raping and killing Kuwaiti's. But, we will finish it and history will tell.
When your country is being beat up for no reason by a bigger, meaner country, us ugly American troops might look pretty damn good.
There was a picture of Bush in a room full of healthy American's(I don't know all the details of where)and the only one who stood was a wounded soldier in a wheelchair, he brought his bandaged arm slowly to his head in a salute, standing as proud as his wasted body would allow.
That's America. Warts and all, this is the greatest country in the world. That's the bottom line.
Posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:10:22
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing., posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 12:13:31
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing., posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
I am too, Phil. We're not perfect but we're not monsters either. And certainly we aren't the worst offender at looking after our economic interests in this matter.
Thank you for your comments about the American POW. I think that Iraqi man is the true hero in all of this. He could have just minded his business, but he made the pain of another human being his business.
At least I think this time, the returning troops won't have to live through what returning Vietnam troops had to face. It appears that even most of those who are anti-war still support our troops.
My son's class wrote letters to the troops. His teacher's report says that the sentiments ranged from "Thank you for protecting us." to "I want a rabbit." My son reports that his was "I hope you are safe." (kindergarten)
Take care, Phil.
Posted by gabbix2 on April 6, 2003, at 16:41:01
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing. » Phil, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 12:13:31
I'm really sorry if it looked like I was in agreement with comparing the troops to terrorists.
I'm not. Even if I was I don't think it would be necessary for me to say so at this time, in this forum.
I took the post overall, differently. Though it probably seems impossible I sort of 'overlooked' that one statement' Shame on me.
I took it as critique of priorities and how perpetually, it seems' in the news both on a large and small scale the life of a precious attractive white person takes precedence over atrocities committed upon others.
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 16:58:19
In reply to I'm sorry Dinah Phil » Dinah, posted by gabbix2 on April 6, 2003, at 16:41:01
And I tend to agree with you about the news. I rather wish more attention were given to the lawyer. Although I suppose it isn't in his best interest to be in the news.
Isn't it odd what they focus on though? My husband often quotes the Simpsons (in our family we use popular TV quotes as a way to tell great truths in small words).
Homer was talking about a little boy who was a great hero. And Bart (?) asked why the little boy was a hero. Homer responded that he had fallen in a well, which led to the quite sensible question of why that made the boy a hero. Oh, it loses something without my husband's great impressions of cartoon characters.
But there is so much truth in that. As much as the story of a child in danger grabs our attention and no matter how much we want them saved, how many children die each year at the hands of their parents with little news mention?
And do you remember that whale story? The two pod whales were caught without exit when their area was iced in. Everyone was doing everything to try to save these whales. The news media was everywhere. Finally a Russian boat broke the ice and the whales were able to escape. The scientists decided not to tag them because the chances of their survival were not great. Yet how many endangered animals are killed each year by poachers and the destruction of the rain forest.
I think it's all just the nature of the news media beast.
Posted by shar on April 6, 2003, at 21:12:21
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing., posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2003, at 2:55:23
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing., posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
> Ask the French, who would be German now, if it weren't for the U.S. dying by the 1000's to save their lazy asses.
> Just don't tell me our troops are evil and mindless and that one American life isn't worth saving.
Did someone say our troops are evil and mindless and an American life isn't worth saving? Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't be sarcastic, post anything that could lead them to feel put down, or exaggerate or overgeneralize, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 5:32:47
In reply to Re: please be civil » Phil, posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2003, at 2:55:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 7, 2003
'Chemical Ali' Found Dead, British Officer Says
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 5:56 a.m. ETBASRA, Iraq (AP) -- Ali Hassan al-Majid, one of the most brutal members of President Saddam Hussein's inner circle, was killed by an airstrike on his house in Basra, a British officer said Monday. He had been dubbed ``Chemical Ali'' by opponents for ordering a 1988 poison gas attack that killed thousands of Kurds.
Maj. Andrew Jackson of the 3rd Battalion Parachute Regiment told The Associated Press that his superiors had confirmed the death of the man who was Saddam's first cousin, entrusted with defending southern Iraq against invading coalition forces.
Al-Majid apparently was killed on Saturday when two coalition aircraft used laser-guided munitions to attack his house in Basra. Jackson said the body was found along with that of his bodyguard and the head of Iraqi intelligence services in Basra.
Jackson said the discovery of al-Majid's body was one of the reasons the British decided to move infantry into Basra, because they hoped that resistance in the southern Iraqi city might crumble with the top leadership gone.
``(His death should show) that the regime is finished. It is over, and liberation is here,'' said Group Capt. Al Lockwood, spokesman for British forces in the Gulf. ``The leadership is now gone in southern Iraq.''
Believed to be in his fifties, al-Majid led a 1988 campaign against rebellious Kurds in northern Iraq in which whole villages were wiped out. An estimated 100,000 Kurds, mostly civilians, were killed.
Al-Majid also has been linked to the bloody crackdown on Shiites in southern Iraq after their uprising following the 1991 Gulf War. Prior to that, he served as governor of Kuwait during Iraq's seven-month occupation of its neighbor in 1990-1991 -- an invasion that led to the Gulf War.
Human rights groups had called for al-Majid's arrest on war crimes charges when he toured Arab capitals last January seeking to rally support against mounting U.S. pressure on Saddam's regime.
``Al-Majid is Saddam Hussein's hatchet man,'' Kenneth Roth, head of Human Rights Watch in New York, said at the time. ``He has been involved in some of Iraq's worst crimes, including genocide and crimes against humanity.''
Hazem al-Youssefi, Cairo representative of the opposition Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, described al-Majid as a standout in a regime of criminals.
Al-Majid was a warrant officer and motorcycle messenger in the army before Saddam's Baath party led a coup in 1968. He was promoted to general and served as defense minister from 1991-95, as well as a regional party leader.
In 1988, as the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war was winding down, he commanded a scorched-earth campaign to wipe out a Kurdish rebellion in northern Iraq. Later, he boasted about the attacks, including the March 16, 1988, poison gas strike on the village of Halabja, where an estimated 5,000 people died.
During April 1991 peace talks in Baghdad, the Kurdish delegation leader, Jalal Talabani, told al-Majid that more than 200,000 Kurds lost their lives in the Iraqi campaign. Al-Majid replied that the figure was exaggerated and the dead were not more than 100,000, according to Arab press reports.
After Iraq's 1991 Shiite Muslim uprising was crushed, Iraqi opposition groups released a video they said had been smuggled out of southern Iraq. In the video, which was shown on several Arab TV networks, al-Majid was seen executing captured rebels with pistol shots to the head and kicking others in the face as they sat on the ground.
He was no less brutal with his own family.
His nephew and Saddam's son-in-law, Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel, was in charge for many years of Iraq's clandestine weapons programs before defecting in 1995 to Jordan with his brother, Saddam Kamel, who was married to Saddam's other daughter.
Both brothers were lured back to Iraq in February 1996 and killed on their uncle's orders, together with several other family members.
Syria and Lebanon ignored international calls to arrest al-Majid when he visited in January. He dropped scheduled stops in Jordan and Egypt -- both U.S. allies. Egypt refused to receive him and the Jordanian government denied a visit was ever planned.
--------
Associated Press writer Maamoun Youssef contributed to this report from Cairo, Egypt.
Copyright 2003 The Associated Press | Privacy Policy
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 14:35:55
In reply to Re: I won't be back to discuss this war. (nm), posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:10:22
Posted by OddipusRex on April 7, 2003, at 14:38:01
In reply to Re: I won't be back to discuss this war. (nm), posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:10:22
Posted by Ginjoint on April 7, 2003, at 22:01:05
In reply to Re: Tired of America bashing., posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 11:08:07
...when America chooses to stay out of a crisis, we hear...."HOW CAN AMERICA <drum roll please> STAND BY AND WATCH THIS HAPPEN?!" That's one of my favorite quotes. When we do get involved to stop a tortuous, murderous tyrant who has women gang raped in front of their own families, then we're spreading imperialism from our trash culture to the seemingly more pristine cultures of the world (many of which still treat women as trash). Meanwhile, other countries sit smugly by, there own economic interests in Iraq safely umbrellaed under a peace movement.
It would be interesting to see, over a span of say, five or seven years, how well some other countries would fare if they should take the reigns from the U.S....the dirty decisions, lousy compromises (but they're the only ones available), and constant cries for huge amounts of aid from countries due to their own fiscal mismangagement. Plus, on the homfront, the jobless rate is high and folks are living well under the poverty line.
I do not want this war. I did not vote for George Bush. But I am tired of hearing complaints from countries that are not in the position we are in. Years from now, if we don't get involved, people will be in "shock and awe" that we stood by and let this brutality go on. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
Ginjoint
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:26:06
In reply to Hey, Phil, my favorite is...., posted by Ginjoint on April 7, 2003, at 22:01:05
Good to see you. I was just thinking about you yesterday. How are you doing?
Posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:28:07
In reply to Hey, Phil, my favorite is...., posted by Ginjoint on April 7, 2003, at 22:01:05
Posted by Ginjoint on April 7, 2003, at 22:28:16
In reply to Re: Ginjoint!, posted by Dinah on April 7, 2003, at 22:26:06
Hey Dinah....I have a post at the bottom of this list....I'm so sorry I haven't been available to help you...hopefully you'll see why....
With love,
Ginjoint
Posted by Alara on April 8, 2003, at 5:21:21
In reply to Re: Counterpoint, posted by Phil on April 6, 2003, at 10:14:11
At the time I wrote my post, I was seriously disillusioned about human nature in general. The post was never intended as an attack on Americans - but after rereading it I can understand why it was perceived in this way.
Just a couple of points for clarification:
1. I didn't mean that the allied forces themselves were `terrorists'. Instead I was implying that allies' governments were driving them to (unknowingly) commit terrorist acts. War is always justified from your own side of the fence.2. I was commenting more upon human nature in general than upon Americans. Greed increases when human beings rise to power -regardless of their culture or nationality - and George Bush and his administration are no exception to this rule. In my opinion, this is just one of the darker sides of the human condition. This tendency towards greed and power can affect all of us and does not define ALL of who we are..I was just venting about one part the human shadow when I posted.
3. I applaud the rescue of Private Jessica. But I do not believe that this nullifies the countless casualties of this war. Nor do I believe that one American life is more important than those hundreds/thousands of Iraqi lives that have been lost. I cannot help but wonder about the timing of the `Jessica' story featured by the American, British and Australian media. (Far better to concentrate on a `feel good' story about one of our comrades than to focus on the mass slaughter that is taking place in the Middle East.) I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but this is my opinion.
At the end of the day, I consider Americans to be my good friends and certainly do not blame the average American person for the atrocities of this war.
I am truly sorry if I offended anybody.
Alara
Posted by Alara on April 8, 2003, at 5:37:31
In reply to Re: This war and the sad human race. Dr. Bob » Alara, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 10:52:57
>
> Saddam Hussein is responsible for the death or "disappearance" of *hundreds of thousands*, let me repeat that *hundreds of thousands* of Iraqis. (Source Amnesty Intl) He invaded his neighboring country of Kuwait with no regard for their sovereignty. (Source known history) He was a threat to others of his neighboring countries by his own past actions. (Source known history) The UN sanctions and the resulting misadministration of the oil for food program under his control was responsible for an immensely high infant mortality rate. (Source Amnesty Intl)
>
> Does that justify the invasion of a sovereign country, even one with which we had never signed a peace settlement after a war started by them - only a cease fire? I don't know. Is the trading of the civilian lives inadvertantly caused by our soldiers, and the military lives directly caused by our soldiers, for the lives of those who would undoubtedly been killed or died from malnutrition under Saddam's regime right? I don't know.
>
>Dinah, this is a very good point. If only this whole d*** thing was more simple!
Posted by Dinah on April 8, 2003, at 7:45:53
In reply to Apology and explanation to Phil and other posters, posted by Alara on April 8, 2003, at 5:21:21
I hadn't realized you weren't American. The thought oddly hadn't occured to me, although I suppose it should have given the sentiments expressed towards Americans by other non-citizens on this board.
I'm glad you consider us friends, but I'm sorry you think so poorly of us.
Oddly, whatever negatives I might think about the democratically elected (Saddam was not elected democratically) leadership of another country, I would never dream of commenting on them on an internet bulletin board. I might just possibly comment on my own leaders (but probably wouldn't in deference to those who elected them) but never those of another country. But that's just me. Apparently it's a well accepted practice among others.
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