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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
I was really hoping the risperdal on an as needed basis was the answer to my meltdowns. But now I'm afraid of taking it for fear of movement disorders. So now I look ahead to a lifetime of periodic meltdowns, with no really effective medical alternatives. I'll just have to ride them out with the help of my long suffering friends, family, and therapist. Such a dismal and totally exhausting future. I've come to realize that all the therapy in the world isn't going to stop them, there has got to be a biological component.
There are a few events in my life that could possibly happen that would make my life totally unbearable. I have long since come to the conclusion that if any of those events should occur my only choice would be to hurl myself from... well never mind where. And to hell with the havoc and pain I would leave behind. With Risperdal, I saw another possible solution short of the hurling one. I suppose that under those circumstances, the risk of movement disorders seems pretty unimportant. So I guess I can still think of Risperdal as my ace in the hole? If things hit the unbearable status, I can still ask to be hospitalized and given heavy drugs, and who really cares if I get movement disorders. It's better than the alternative, right?
Ok, that's helped me a bit. I may have to live with the periodic meltdowns, but I don't have to live with the unbearable.
I know I'm not being reasonable. I'm not feeling reasonable. I'm feeling angry. I hate meltdowns. I don't want to have any more. And nothing else touched them. Ego glue, I saw someone call the atypical antipsychotics once. I want my ego glue. :((((((
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 12:07:52
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
dinah,
i still have a noticable tic...
it doesnt bother me anymore..
dont be hurling yourself anywhere..unless it is into the sunshine and glory..and that is not found infront of a bus..
waiting for meds to help..waiting for depression to lift a little..waiting to feel content..waiting
waiting waiting...at the bus stop..
peace jyl
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 12:14:46
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
dinah..i will swing by in my mustang and pick you up,,no need for the public transit today..
mabe we could take a break from things and go get drunk at the roller rink...
peace
jyl
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 12:20:40
In reply to wait...im coming to pick you up!, posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 12:14:46
Chuckle. Drunk at a roller rink. Sounds swirly.
Can we get drunk at a nice stationary park instead? Pretty trees and soft grass? The whiff of spring in the air?
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 12:54:17
In reply to Re: wait...im coming to pick you up! » justyourlaugh, posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 12:20:40
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2003, at 13:25:10
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
D,
You wrote,[...would like to chat...].
Are you there?
Lou
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 5, 2003, at 14:06:29
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
Hi Dinah.. I am once again struck by the combination of strength and vulnerability which you have. The strengths are so clear here on the board- in how you understand other people so well, and relate so well to such a range of people. And it sounds as though you have a sound marriage to a man you love, and a fine son as well. What you have done with your own life seems a tremendous order of magnitude better than what happened with your parents when you were a child. But those horrible experiences have obviously left you excessively vulnerable to becoming anxious and depressed- probably from minimal stressors.
I'm going to take a chance, and guess that you may not have as good a therapist as you need. I think the most effective therapists working today are using techniques derived from attachment theory and its disorders. They work, at first almost entirely, on "containment"-to use a current term- meaning that they want the patient to develop the capacity to feel completely safe in the therapist's presence, even when their most terrifying feelings and memories are brought into that space between patient and therapist. Effective treatment should mean that after a year or two, a patient should be able to carry that sense of safety with her/him even when separate, and use it to modify those extreme emotional reactions.
To relate my own experience, after sucessful TMS in January, i decided to try to find a therapist who was skilled in these new techniques, as I felt that I would probably relapse if I didn't keep trying to address the consequences of the severe PTSD which I have. It was hard to find one (and I didn't know exactly who I was trying to find), but after a month of interviewing and asking, I found an absolutely wonderful therapist. He is a psychoanalyst, but I see him twice a week, sitting up. What matters is that he really knows what he is doing! I feel I am already (after 6 weeks of therapy) making real progress in truly understanding and modifying the overpowering, instantaneous shifts into anxiety and depression which have always occurred.
I found this therapist by starting with a Psychoanalytic Institute, and making it clear that I wanted a modern therapist, skilled in relational techniques- and NOT an old=fashioned Freudian analyst. I was pleasantly surprised to find out that many psychoanalysts feel that their profession has been transformed in the last 10-15 years, and that it is not hard to find the newly-trained kind.
I know you have been with your current therapist for a number of years, and that my suggestion may seem very inappropriate and unwelcome. But, in the spirit of maintaining freedom of speech and inquiry on PB, I'm going to make it anyway! There seems to already be such a big part of you that's strong and healthy, that I think you can get really WELL, Dinah!
Pfinstegg
Posted by noa on April 5, 2003, at 16:17:03
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on April 5, 2003, at 14:06:29
Dinah, sorry to hear you are depressed. Frankly, I'm a bit depressed past couple of days too. I know exactly why, though! It is the job thing. I'm angry, and when I feel angry I get depressed. Not just anger, but anger plus a sense of not having control. Sound familiar?
I'm getting out of the house, though. Going to see The Hours, dinner first, with a friend. Hope the movie doesn't depress me!
Hang in there.
Posted by OddipusRex on April 5, 2003, at 16:42:38
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
> With Risperdal, I saw another possible solution short of the hurling one. I suppose that under those circumstances, the risk of movement disorders seems pretty unimportant. So I guess I can still think of Risperdal as my ace in the hole? If things hit the unbearable status, I can still ask to be hospitalized and given heavy drugs, and who really cares if I get movement disorders. It's better than the alternative, right?
>
> Ok, that's helped me a bit. I may have to live with the periodic meltdowns, but I don't have to live with the unbearable.
>
> I know I'm not being reasonable. I'm not feeling reasonable. I'm feeling angry.Dinah I think you're being very reasonable. I think you reasoned your way into a plan of action if things start seeming unbearable. You can be reasonable and angry at the same time!
I hope you can find something to enjoy even a little today or at least you can hold on and wait this out. And when you feel better you may be able to come up with other alternatives that you just can't see right now.
Posted by noa on April 5, 2003, at 17:36:30
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on April 5, 2003, at 16:42:38
yeah, Dinah, what rex said--why is angry unreasonable?
I'm angry, too. Only it's hard to be angry, and it is hard to articulate why I'm angry. I know why. But it slips right into depression when I feel powerless. But when I think about it, of course I'm angry. It is not unreasonable.
You have plenty grounds to be angry, with all the good girl expectations on you. But on top of that, you sound frustrated that the meds are not doing their thing as well as you want.
Are you angry at your therapist? Or at the responses you got from us to your questions about dealing with the therapist's personal issues?
Do you remember the movie "Network"? Feel like going to the window with me and screaming, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!"?
Actually, that image made me laugh and feel a bit better--the image of us social babblers, the angry ones, going to the window together, having a scream, and then feeling better, and all going out for dinner together to put our cares behind us.
Silly me.....
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 17:47:45
In reply to Re: I'm depressed., posted by noa on April 5, 2003, at 17:36:30
i like the quote from the movie"scary movie 2"
"im not crazy!!!"as she runs with her arms frailing above her head....
...
how about being so angry..not knowing why..
like the pain has manifested into this bitter form?
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 19:17:09
In reply to Re: I'm depressed., posted by noa on April 5, 2003, at 17:36:30
Naw can't do it. It just makes me laugh. :)
I'm not actually angry with my therapist, and certainly not with the replies to my posts. As luck would have it, my therapist managed to wrap me with a warm fluffy blanket of security before he left. He backed off a circular argument we have sometimes, and remembered that we mean different things by the same words. He even joked about my need for security in such a way that made me feel like he didn't mind. I left on a very good note, which made the absence much easier to take.
But the thing I'm angry about is the Risperdal. I was in early meltdown a week or two ago, and decided to take the Risperdal. It worked wonderfully as it has a time or two before. And I felt soooo good that there was something I could take that would stop these pernicious meltdowns, which usually last at least days if not longer. And then one stupid incident of tongue thrusting, and I'm afraid to take it any longer. And my husband is adamant that I don't take it. He says my meltdowns are temporary and that I'll get over them, but he doesn't want me chancing permanent side effects. And no other class of meds has ever had any real effect on the meltdowns, although klonopin helps me a bit.
And risperdal was definitely part of my safety net for disaster, and I guess it still is that.
I just feel like something was snatched away from me, and I'm as mad as a two year old about it. Or maybe I'm just sad.
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 19:48:51
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on April 5, 2003, at 16:42:38
Why I do believe you're right!!! I weighed the alternatives, chose the best of the three, and decided to stick to my current plan for implementation. Very reasonable indeed. Thanks for pointing it out to me. :)
I just hate to return to the prospect of meltdowns every eight to ten weeks, more often if I'm under stress. It really is tiresome.
Accursed psych meds!
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 20:04:23
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on April 5, 2003, at 14:06:29
I couldn't possibly be offended or angry at such a kind and flattering post. :)
You've got me pegged. Vulnerable to minimal stressors sums me up.
My therapist does have that as his goal, I think. His overall plan is something along reparenting lines I believe. And I do feel safe in his presence. I see the safety of therapy as what helps me tackle the lack of safety elsewhere. But I just can't seem to make the leap to carrying that safety with me.
It's kind of funny really. I tend to personify things. I personified happiness in the form of a darling little dog I had many years ago. She was my happiness. And when she died, to some extent my happiness died with her. And I've personified safety in the form of my therapist. It exasperates him to some extent for the obvious reasons. But he also feels it's a function of the emotional age I function at (along with magical thinking and a heck of a lot of other things too), and his goal is to help me move past that stage of functioning. And the amazing thing is that I don't get offended at this assessment.
But I also have to concede that there is probably a large biological component to the whole thing. The cycles, including meltdowns, are too predictable in length and order of appearance for me to think that it's totally psychological.
Even if another therapist were able to help me more though, it wouldn't matter. He's my harbor, my safety, the mother dog to my blind pup. I couldn't leave him to save my life.
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 20:06:48
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 19:48:51
dinah,,,you must know from my perspective..you are one of the most together,well written,sometimes rightious(like motherhood)..
you have such a strong pressents here....are youthe queen bee?..
dont doubt...
we can see you....you are...
be strong...
jyl
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 20:06:58
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on April 5, 2003, at 13:25:10
I'm sorry to have missed you. I finally stopped procrastinating and went into the office to get some work done.
I really would like to chat sometime, though. :)
Posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 21:24:54
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by justyourlaugh on April 5, 2003, at 20:06:48
Isn't it funny how differently we see ourselves than others see us. :)
I really feel like myself today. I'm dressed in shorts with pigtails. If I squint so I can't see the grey hairs, I can almost see the little girl I think of myself as.
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 5, 2003, at 21:50:09
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 20:04:23
Well, that's the most important thing - to feel truly safe with and attached to him. It can take a long time to get that far, and it's the most profound and wonderful thing that could possibly happen. I guess the step of widening that security out into the world has to happen naturally in its own time. I seem to have somehow found a therapist who is making things happen awfully quickly! (at a terrifying rate, honestly.)
As you know if you read any of my PB posts, I also feel certain that there is a strong physical component to all of the problems we are facing. It's discouraging how little anyone really knows about them, and how hit-or-miss the medications we have to take are. Every single one of them has awful side effects for so many people. One of the medications I used to take was Zyprexa, 5 mg. which is a lot like Risperidal. It worked beautifully, only I gained 50 pounds in 8 months, ruined my formerly excellent blood lipids and became pre-diabetic! I've gotten everything back to where it was, physically, but am still stunned that I was given this medication without a word as to what it might do to my physical health! And at the time, I was too trusting (stupid) to check independently. So I can empathize with what happened to you with Risperidal. But maybe you can take it every other day or on occasion.
Hope the "meltdown" is rapidly firming up!
Pfinstegg
Posted by sienna on April 6, 2003, at 1:42:02
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
Hi there
im sorry you are feeling so badly. I havent been able to read through all the posts and its late and i cant tonite, but i hope you are feeling a little better than you did earlier. Ill come check on you tomorow.take care
sienna
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 4:43:32
In reply to Dinah, posted by sienna on April 6, 2003, at 1:42:02
I'm okay, Sienna. I'm just disappointed. But I really will be okay.
You sound tired. I hope you're taking care of yourself.
(((Sienna)))
Posted by Alara on April 6, 2003, at 7:51:45
In reply to I'm depressed., posted by Dinah on April 5, 2003, at 11:40:41
Dinah,
Please don't give up home. We all have our meltdowns in various forms but they are episodic. We will only hurt ourselves if we define ourselves by our bad experiences.Persist and you will come full circle.
Remember that there is a Dinah inside of you who is always wise, insightful and `normal' (if such a trait exists). That Dinah will never go away. Continue working so that she has a stronger voice in your every day life and eventually the despair will give way to hope.
Hope you're feeling better soon. I get pretty down at times too but, after several years of struggle, I've come to the realisation that I can get through anything, no matter how bad it seems at the time. You can too.
Peace be with you.
Alara
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 9:54:04
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on April 5, 2003, at 21:50:09
Congratulations on finding such a gem of a therapist, by the way. Sometimes it seems like such a hit or miss process.
Do you think your successful previous therapy enabled you to hit the ground running with this one? I think at that stage in my therapy, it was still awkward chit chat and generic homework assignments.
I don't read the meds board that often. Have you found a workable meds and or supplement program? I agree about the side effects. I can't even try zyprexa because of the diabetes link.
Posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 9:56:06
In reply to Re: I'm depressed., posted by Alara on April 6, 2003, at 7:51:45
I am feeling better today, thank you.
I think it's terrific that you have the assurance that you can get through anything. I need to build my confidence to that level.
Posted by sienna on April 6, 2003, at 16:35:25
In reply to Re: Sienna » sienna, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 4:43:32
Hi Dinah,
Yes i am a little tired, just so busy all the sudden and its a mess. But anyways, i know about disapointment when some med doesnt work out because of side effects. Or Ive also had no side effects but the drug doesnt work either. It is very dissapointing. Is there another med in that class you can try? im sure you already have thought of that. but sometimes things work for other than therir primary reason for bieng prescribed. I know that klonopin helps me a lot when im gettin overwhelmd. there are so many drugs out there there must be something you can take prn that can help. Im just so sorry that you cant take the risperdal anymore.
(((((((Dinah))))))) hug for you too.
Sienna
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 6, 2003, at 17:50:20
In reply to Re: I'm depressed. » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on April 6, 2003, at 9:54:04
Hi Dinah.. I am a drop-out from the AD's, and find I am doing much better on a collection of things which all are hopefully neuroprotective in some way. The things are:fish oil, B vitamins, magnesium, phosphadatylserine, alpha lipoic acid, synthroid, Cytomel, and the European AD tianeptine, which is known to protect the hippocampus from cortisol- in baby tree shrews, but what the h...! Some of these things are undoubtedly much more important than others, but since I am feeling free of depression now, I'm just going to continue taking the whole lot!
It was fascinating to return to therapy after a LONG hiatus, and find myself taking up right where I had left off-I guess there's no real sense of the passage of time when it comes to our most intimate and powerful feelings. And thanks, I do feel really lucky with this one. I interviewed several, which was hard to do, but worth it because when I came across Dr. W, I knew he was just right for me.
Thinking of you in pigtails and shorts makes me hope that the "meltdown" is either disappearing down the drain - or firming up- an ice cream cone in reverse mode?
Pfinstegg
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