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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 16:56:13
that there is absolutely nowhere in society that you can fit in??? I feel so alone. No offence intended but I thought I could fit in and get along with and be understood by other people who suffer from different forms of mental illness but it seems that I don't have a place there either. Where else is there for me to go???
More and more I am questioning the validity of my life. Why do I keep subjecting myself to all this pain everyday. There's only so much I can take of this. Sometimes I just don't see the point.
Angel Girl
Posted by Phil on July 3, 2002, at 18:45:18
In reply to Do you ever feel...., posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 16:56:13
Angel Girl,
Stop beating yourself up. Okay, I do it too but stop anyway. 8^)
I think you and I have something in common, we have a little glitch when it comes to "letting" others love us. The alienation you feel is self-induced, I think you get along just fine. Maybe you don't feel worthy of happiness (I have that one big time)and not only don't you feel worthy, but you also say it.
You are comparing your insides to others outsides.
I look absolutely normal walking down the street but I'm always fighting the thought of hopelessness on the inside. I constantly look at others and see what they have and I'm miserable because they have something that I'd like to have but can't. I wonder why I'm about to turn 49 and have 'nothing to show for it' as the saying goes.
Well, I have a lot to show for my life and you do too, Angel Girl, you're a walking example of a person who battles their erroneous thoughts all day but is still with the living, doing the best they know how. I've come to the conclusion that you and me and everyone else with mental illness fights the toughest disease on this planet, bar none. There are some bad diseases but nothing touches depression. Not only do you feel like walking death half your life but you get the added bonus of friends, family, and everyone else thinking you just need to pull yourselves up by the bootstraps. Hell, no wonder we get suicidal. People are not taking the time to learn about their mental illness. I know people on meds who take the pills and that's it. No curiosity about the brain, their meds. So, to me, if you don't feel crazy with depression, you may need to up the dose.
Is there a point in life...no. Life, in the end, is pointless. But, even getting in the flow with pointlessness is fun. Then we don't see everything that happens to us as the end of the world.
The question of pain, Angel Girl, is that unless you're a psychopath, you have pain. We all feel it. Living is painful..it's supposed to be. But it's supposed to have up's and happiness, too. We can never be as carefree like we were at 4 or 5. It's a shame we lose that play thing.Sometimes now, I'll think about conversing with my disease and I always say this, "I've walked with you for 20 years and there is no way in hell you're ever gonna beat me. Angel Girl, throw off the shackles, you are large and in charge.
We still have choices in depression.With a lot of love and respect for you, Angel Girl. All you can say is I feel terrible. But, you're here saying it. That's how I know you'll get better. You are worth more than diamonds or gold.
A fellow sufferrer,
Phil
Posted by judy1 on July 3, 2002, at 20:38:09
In reply to Re: Do you ever feel.... » Angel Girl, posted by Phil on July 3, 2002, at 18:45:18
You wrote a beautiful response to Angel Girl and I really have nothing to add- but something struck me. My therapist said all those people walking around 'looking normal' are in pain too- your comment about looking normal just struck me because it was in total agreement to what she said. Take care, judy
Posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 21:48:41
In reply to Re: Do you ever feel.... » Angel Girl, posted by Phil on July 3, 2002, at 18:45:18
Phil
You see alot more in me than I see in myself. I've been searching my whole life for love and I haven't found it. I've been told it is there but I don't know how to accept it. How can a person not know how to accept love??? Love is something that seems so foreign to me, at least as far as receiving it. I do feel that I have lots of love to give to others. All I seem to ever feel is pain, not only my own but also that of others. When I see other people posting their pain, I hurt right along with them. I feel their pain as if it is mine. I'm drawn into it.
I want to feel some joy and happiness for a change. I'm tired of the tears every day. I'm tired of my feelings being so fragile. I too look at people on the street and wish I could be like them when I see the smiles on their faces or a warm embrace shared. I'm also tired and angered when I'm told to 'snap out of it'. I hate when people who know absolutely nothing about depression so freely give uneducational advice. I also think there is nothing worse than depression.
I try to find hope but lately I'm feeling like I'm being dragged down more and more. Each day is no better than the day before and I wonder why anybody would want to continue going through their life with this continual emotional pain. If I could have one day without tears and find something to be excited about, then I could see there is hope and it would be easier to keep going on.
I'm glad you understand my pain but it also saddens me too because for you to understand it means you are living it and I hate to see anybody living in the same pain that I am.
I hope someday we can all find a way to rise above it all.
Thank you for your support and very kind words.
Angel Girl
Posted by Phil on July 4, 2002, at 9:18:30
In reply to Re: Do you ever feel.... -- Phil, posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 21:48:41
This is from CODA, Codependents Anonymous.
This is the center of the onion for most people in recovery. I still have a lot of these patterns.
-----Patterns and Characteristics
of Codependence
These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation. They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.Denial Patterns:
I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.
Low Self Esteem Patterns:
I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
Compliance Patterns:
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.
Control Patterns:
I believe most other people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others of what they "should" think and how they "truly" feel.
I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I care about.
I use sex to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be "needed" in order to have a relationship with others.
Posted by Angel Girl on July 4, 2002, at 20:21:39
In reply to Re: Do you ever feel.... -- Phil, posted by Phil on July 4, 2002, at 9:18:30
Posted by Zo on July 5, 2002, at 6:55:54
In reply to Do you ever feel...., posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 16:56:13
> that there is absolutely nowhere in society that you can fit in???
Jeez, AG, *I* understand you perfectly well, you "fit in" with me. . .Maybe the others are clueless. Huh? Did you ever think of that? (joke) (sort of)
I hope you're not depressed just because of not fitting in. Anybody with an interesting thing to say doesn't fit in. . you have to be a bit outside to be able to see. It's actually a neat place.
Like that, Phil? "Neat"? How hip am I? Don't answer.
Zo
Posted by Phil on July 5, 2002, at 12:43:38
In reply to Re: Do you ever feel.... » Angel Girl, posted by Zo on July 5, 2002, at 6:55:54
Posted by JohnDoenut on July 8, 2002, at 9:09:19
In reply to Do you ever feel...., posted by Angel Girl on July 3, 2002, at 16:56:13
I was just thinking the other day that I'm 40 and I still don't know where I fit in. I realize I'm not like a lot of people who have their thing and are into that and fit into that. Actually I am into many things and like to do not just one thing so I end up not spending enough time on one particular thing to fit into it or with the people. Its like Im just skimming the surface and am missing something. I dont know. I feel pulled into different directions and cant focus on where I really want to be so I dont get much accomplished. What does that have to do with fitting in?! The nail that sticks up gets hammered down. I dont want to fit in like that. To me being a drone in society is not my idea of fitting in if thats what its about. I'd rather not fit than be a drone. I'd rather hang out with all the other misfits and not-fitters-in than be a drone. :) I remember in late 80s early 90s when suddenly it was cool to not be a part of the crowd. The misfit loner people suddenly had others just like them all around and it was ok to be a geek or whatever you were.
Anyway whats the point? Phil thinks life is pointless. I know some people who said to me that if there was nothing after life then that meant that life was pointless, that the universe was just playing a joke on us. I disagree. I think the point of life is simply life. To be alive. At the very least, most basic, the point is to be alive and experience it. There's more point in what you do (or dont do) too. But at the least if you are aware enough to live in the moment sometimes and not in the past or the future then you get the point. I think life is about moments. There may be a moment when you feel exhilerated and joyous and connected and yet others when you feel terrible, alone, despairing. But that's life. Cliche'd as that may be. I live for the good moments of joy and pleasure and just try to get by the bad ones as quick as I can! I could look back and say yea the last 6 months my general situation has been bad and things dont seem to be getting better but there have been moments to the contrary during all that too.
J
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