![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by coral on October 26, 2000, at 5:23:30
What are others' experiences (if any) with phobias? All of my life, I've been claustrophobic, but with my first depressive episode, that phobia practical disappeared and hasn't returned. However, I did develop a phobia about having my blood pressure taken. I know the genesis of the phobia - a doctor who would NOT listen to me. I was severely clinically depressed, had a history of hypothyroidism, and my BP went from its normal low to high. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it lowered. I KEPT asking the doctor (for one year - dumb me!) to check my thyroid and he said there was no problem (I listened - dumb me again!). Finally, I had my thyroid tested, and it was sky high. When I discussed the test results with the doctor, he said we'd lower my thyroid med (duh...) and I asked if he'd retest in 6 weeks. He said "No. We'll just see how you're feeling. No need to unnecessarily poke you." I left his office and never looked back. I finally found a superior endocrinologist, and my thyroid is fine. I haven't taken any thyroid meds in seven years. However, I'm still stuck with this stupid phobia. My BP now is normal, although I do take Tenormin. The standard treatments for phobias don't work, such as flooding, aversion therapy, hypnosis, behavior mod, and I'm seeking help. It's a perfectly stupid phobia and unfortunately creates the very thing I'm afraid of, elevated BP. There's still some anger at the doc who wouldn't listen and that may be part of maintaining the phobia. I know all of this intellectually, but it's like an imprint occurred on my brain, during the depression, that I haven't been able to erase. Any thoughts? Ideas? Help?
Posted by laural on October 26, 2000, at 8:32:57
In reply to Phobias, posted by coral on October 26, 2000, at 5:23:30
> What are others' experiences (if any) with phobias?
i'm clausterphobic, but only in hot stuffy places. i often sleep with my head under the blankets if i sleep alone but i always make an air space for my nose in which i feel fresh air. if someone pins me to the ground, sometimes i panick and i get really embarrassed afterwards. tight clothing in winter when your really hot makes me panick too, like when your in a hot elevator and you have a sweater on and a coat and you can't get your coat off--i feel like i'm going to pass out and my panic makes me often unable to get my coat off so i have to have someone help me, even if i don't know them.
of course there's my fear of any arachnoid--scorpion, lobster, spiders--but other than seeing a spider in the car while youre driving and swerving into oncoming traffic or keeping you from walking in the woods in the summer--well i guess that is kind of a hinderance.
i don't know if youde call my fear of the supernatural a phobia as i don't know the definition but without my anitpsychocit i'm a mess
i was wondering if maybe you could ask someone to borrow a blood pressure thingie and practise taking your own pressure as perhaps having more control over the situation might help--i wouldn't suggest the machines they have in grocery stores as those things scare me to : ) laural
Posted by shar on October 26, 2000, at 12:05:36
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by laural on October 26, 2000, at 8:32:57
> > What are others' experiences (if any) with phobias?
I am the quintessential dental phobic. This after a lot of childhood dental work where they didn't use novocaine for "little" cavities. I grew up with Air Force dentists who were not awfully motivated to care about the patient. I inherited (of course) my dad's teeth, thin enamel, high sensitivity (extreme) to cold.
Dentists use drills that are cooled by water or air. Does that water or air hurt the tooth with novocaine? No. Does that cold water/air hurt every other tooth it touches -- HELL YES. So I am always trying to cover the teeth with my tongue. Oh, and the cold water they spray all on your teeth so you can rinse? I must jump a foot when that happens. Duh.
When I became of age, if I had a problem tooth it got pulled. Later, I found a dentist who would zap me up with nitrous to the max (I was having aural hallucinations) and I finally was able to get my teeth fixed (3 permanent bridges) and a ton of fillings. He zapped me from the time I sat down in the chair until he was completely done, none of the "you won't need this for x-rays" BS. And I went regularly, and he zapped me up every time. Of course, he used novocaine.
Now it's a big trial to try to express to dentists that I am phobic and I get the "oh, it will be ok" and they use nitrous a little, so I'm always saying, can you increase the nitrous. And end up crying (as in weeping). Some dentists just get put out at me, and I have yet to find one who gives a shit. (The great dentist I had lives in another city.)
So, my recent oral surgery, I try like hell to let people know, and they do not listen, and this dentist just got put out when I cried and said they tried to calm me down by talking about the olympics, and then she just shut up and did her thing, and walked out without another word.
Of course I cried again when it was over, and I was paying, and I sat in my car weeping for about 15 minutes.
I am sick of dumb ass dentists who don't listen, and say it's ok or that with work I can get over it. I don't want to get over it. I want nitrous out the wazoo and novocaine, and I can get through it. Jesus, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure this out. I am SO CLEAR from the VERY START with them.
This is long and I am pissed. I hate dentists.
I am a little claustrophobic in the dark, like a totally darkened room at night, or in movies.
Shar
Posted by Ted on October 26, 2000, at 13:55:46
In reply to Phobias, posted by coral on October 26, 2000, at 5:23:30
1. Spiders & spider webs. Caused by growing up in the Arizona desert with black widow spiders. My job around the house was to go out after dark with a flashlight & flyswatter and kill every black widow. Now just touching a spider web unexpectedly makes me **JUMP**.
This is an odd phobia. I am not afraid of spiders or their webs unless I am surprised by them. I can hold tarantulas if I pick them up. I just can't touch anything without control.
2. Things that go bump in the night when I am home alone. But I have no problem with rural camping & backpacking where I hear coyotes, mountain lions, squirrels, bears, etc. all night.
Ted
Posted by Cindy W on October 26, 2000, at 21:30:52
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by Ted on October 26, 2000, at 13:55:46
> 1. Spiders & spider webs. Caused by growing up in the Arizona desert with black widow spiders. My job around the house was to go out after dark with a flashlight & flyswatter and kill every black widow. Now just touching a spider web unexpectedly makes me **JUMP**.
>
> This is an odd phobia. I am not afraid of spiders or their webs unless I am surprised by them. I can hold tarantulas if I pick them up. I just can't touch anything without control.
>
> 2. Things that go bump in the night when I am home alone. But I have no problem with rural camping & backpacking where I hear coyotes, mountain lions, squirrels, bears, etc. all night.
>
> TedCoral, Laural, Shar, and Ted...I've always been terribly afraid of hypodermic needles, so can relate to what you've written (I have though become less afraid of spiders, since studying them and realizing I'm just another "surface" to them). Behavior therapy would probably be most helpful if you want to get rid of a phobia. I HATE going to the dentist or doctor, although I've finally learned to cope with blood tests without worrying for days in advance. When I had a breast biopsy this year, I insisted they use some stuff that completely anesthetized my breast locally, before they even gave me a local anesthetic, and I took Ativan to the point I was almost asleep, which helped. Consider behavior therapy (systematic desensitization); it has a good track record with phobias.
Posted by laural on October 27, 2000, at 10:41:44
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by Ted on October 26, 2000, at 13:55:46
> 1. Spiders & spider webs. Caused by growing up in the Arizona desert with black widow spiders. My job around the house was to go out after dark with a flashlight & flyswatter and kill every black widow.
wow, that sounds like child abuse to me, and not just because i'm terrified of spiders--black widows are deadly, and easy to bump into with just a flashlight.
i think my terror must have had something to do with living in the woods--our house was infested with brown recluses. though they are not as poisonous, they really hurt and the skin around the bite decays in a really ugly big nasty way. they don't build webs but hide in cracks and clothes and paper, etc. everytime i got dressed i would have to shake out my clothes and shoes--putting on shoes still unsettles me, esp. if i havn't worn them for a while.laural
Posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 10:48:11
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by shar on October 26, 2000, at 12:05:36
Oh, dear (((((((SHAR))))))))))
How I can identify!!!! At 14, a dentist SLAPPED me for howling in pain. My siblings and I have a genetic excess of nerves and roots - if a normal person has two, we have three or four. I'm the only member of my family who still has her own teeth, although all of mine but one have crowns, and a bridge --- too many root canals to count, 7 oral surgeries on infections that had seeped into the jaw bone. Due to my terror of dentists, Novacaine sails through my system in a heartbeat. The last oral surgeon I saw for a root canal said, "You're exactly the type of patient that caused me to become an oral surgeon." Oh, joy. Thank God he wasn't a sadist.
After a long, hard search to find a dentist who would understand, (I've bolted out of more dentists' chairs than I care to remember), I finally found a dentist who BELIEVED me. The arrangement I have with him (which might help, if you find a dentist who has still retained his/her humanity) is that 1. I come in early for an appt (15 minutes) so they can start the Nitrose full-tilt (it took my present dentist two sessions to understand that I not only could handle it at full-tilt but needed it), 2. he uses Marcaine which is much longer-acting 3. I use headphones with particularly engrossing music 4. I also bring a dark scarf to cover my eyes to block out the lights 5. he uses a "bite block" so I don't have to work at keeping my mouth open, 6. if he needs to talk to me, he does it before he starts, because I'm going "somewhere else". The only difficulty is if he's breaking in a new assistant who will INVARIABLY chatter to me, but he'll cut her off, telling her not to speak to me, that I'm doing my best to be somewhere else. Most importantly, if I raise my hand, he stops IMMEDIATELY because something hurts and gives me whatever I need to stop the pain. He also automatically writes a prescription for Vicodan so I can stay pain-free for the next 24 hours. Hell of a process, I know, but it's the ONLY way I can tolerate dental work. I bless this dentist with all my heart.I, too, hate dentists for their insensitivity, audacity to tell me that it "doesn't" hurt, (Oh, yeah???), that my phobia is childish, and refusing to listen.
If you like, I can ask my dentist if he knows of anyone in your area.
Posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 10:57:35
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by laural on October 26, 2000, at 8:32:57
Dear Laural,
If only I had the courage to use a BP cuff at home..... My absolutely unfounded and dumb fear is that if I got a high reading, I'd panic, causing it to go higher, resulting in stroke, heart attack, and every other imaginable blight to humankind, and there wouldn't be proper available medical intervention.
My gynecologist who I trust (20 year doc/patient relationship w/him) can take it and I handle it "ok" (not great, but ok), asked why I could let him take it and not others. I said because I trust him, and if it was high, he'd know what to do. He laughed and said, "Yes, I'd call a real doctor."
Posted by Ted on October 27, 2000, at 10:59:26
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 10:48:11
My dentist has a sign in his office that reads, "We cater to cowards". He does not use general anesthesia, but he will do anything else needed. He is an old-fashioned dentist: no assistant or receptionist, only 1 patient at a time, schedules patients with a minimum of 15 minutes excess time to allow for "cool down" time afterwards, etc. And he's really nice & friendly too. The only problem is he will be retiring soon.... :-(
Coral, a dentist *slapped* you? That is abuse for any cause. I hope you told your parents, etc., not that it would do much good. My parents' dentist was a loser. I am so happy to be 1000 miles away.
Ted
Posted by Ted on October 27, 2000, at 11:17:31
In reply to Ted, posted by laural on October 27, 2000, at 10:41:44
Laural,
> black widows are deadly,
Hence my job to eradicate them.
> and easy to bump into with just a flashlight.
They only come out at night. We once had one that lived under my mother's china hutch in the kitchen. Every morning there would be a big web under the chair next to it. It took me 2 weeks to kill it. Bug sprays don't work. Outside the house, I would kill up to 30 a night three times a week. They were everywhere -- in the tubes of lawn chairs, under rocks & boards, behind flower pots, in bags of charcoal, *inside* charcoal grills, etc. Anyplace that gave them a dark hiding place during the day.
> our house was infested with brown recluses.
Ick. We had those too, but they were uncommon. My brother got bit by one once -- lucky he got prompt treatment. A telephone worker in my home town got bit by one hiding in an outdoor wiring cabinet and ended up losing his forearm because he was too macho to get treatment.
>putting on shoes still unsettles me
I was told a story about a scorpion in a hiking boot once.... Well you get the idea. Eeeuuwww!
Ted
Posted by shar on October 27, 2000, at 12:34:11
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 10:48:11
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ASK YOUR WONDERFUL DENTIST IF HE KNOWS OF SOMEONE IN AUSTIN, TEXAS WHO IS AS GOOD AS HE WITH PHOBIC PATIENTS!!!!!
A term I now toss around is "conscious sedation" so that lets dentists know I mean full tilt. It doesn't always work of course. And I routinely take 10 mg. of Valium before arriving, and it has a hardly noticeable affect.
I am so envious! You are so blessed!
Shar
> Oh, dear (((((((SHAR))))))))))
> How I can identify!!!! At 14, a dentist SLAPPED me for howling in pain. My siblings and I have a genetic excess of nerves and roots - if a normal person has two, we have three or four. I'm the only member of my family who still has her own teeth, although all of mine but one have crowns, and a bridge --- too many root canals to count, 7 oral surgeries on infections that had seeped into the jaw bone. Due to my terror of dentists, Novacaine sails through my system in a heartbeat. The last oral surgeon I saw for a root canal said, "You're exactly the type of patient that caused me to become an oral surgeon." Oh, joy. Thank God he wasn't a sadist.
> After a long, hard search to find a dentist who would understand, (I've bolted out of more dentists' chairs than I care to remember), I finally found a dentist who BELIEVED me. The arrangement I have with him (which might help, if you find a dentist who has still retained his/her humanity) is that 1. I come in early for an appt (15 minutes) so they can start the Nitrose full-tilt (it took my present dentist two sessions to understand that I not only could handle it at full-tilt but needed it), 2. he uses Marcaine which is much longer-acting 3. I use headphones with particularly engrossing music 4. I also bring a dark scarf to cover my eyes to block out the lights 5. he uses a "bite block" so I don't have to work at keeping my mouth open, 6. if he needs to talk to me, he does it before he starts, because I'm going "somewhere else". The only difficulty is if he's breaking in a new assistant who will INVARIABLY chatter to me, but he'll cut her off, telling her not to speak to me, that I'm doing my best to be somewhere else. Most importantly, if I raise my hand, he stops IMMEDIATELY because something hurts and gives me whatever I need to stop the pain. He also automatically writes a prescription for Vicodan so I can stay pain-free for the next 24 hours. Hell of a process, I know, but it's the ONLY way I can tolerate dental work. I bless this dentist with all my heart.
>
> I, too, hate dentists for their insensitivity, audacity to tell me that it "doesn't" hurt, (Oh, yeah???), that my phobia is childish, and refusing to listen.
>
> If you like, I can ask my dentist if he knows of anyone in your area.
Posted by shar on October 27, 2000, at 12:44:50
In reply to Re: Ted » laural, posted by Ted on October 27, 2000, at 11:17:31
I spent a lot of time in West Texas -- you know where the Rattlesnake Roundup is held every year? We would have to watch for scorpions, tarantulas, and rattlesnakes. Few rattlesnakes were found in houses, but often in garages. This was base housing (Air Force) and we all got snake lessons.
Any new house I move into (in Texas) always has scorpions in it, and the last one I moved out of had centipedes (desert style, dayglo orange with stingers, about 4-6 inches long). Finally, after trying many methods that had no impact) I learned to kill them with two empty coffee cans. One can (with open side down) for the front and one on the back to cut them in two. They were tough.
Whenever I saw the dog and/or cat staring at the wall, it was usually a centipede.
Somehow I didn't get phobic about it, but I was already an adult, and certainly did not have to go hunting for them!!!
Geez--no wonder we're so messed up!
Shar
> Laural,
>
> > black widows are deadly,
>
> Hence my job to eradicate them.
>
> > and easy to bump into with just a flashlight.
>
> They only come out at night. We once had one that lived under my mother's china hutch in the kitchen. Every morning there would be a big web under the chair next to it. It took me 2 weeks to kill it. Bug sprays don't work. Outside the house, I would kill up to 30 a night three times a week. They were everywhere -- in the tubes of lawn chairs, under rocks & boards, behind flower pots, in bags of charcoal, *inside* charcoal grills, etc. Anyplace that gave them a dark hiding place during the day.
>
> > our house was infested with brown recluses.
>
> Ick. We had those too, but they were uncommon. My brother got bit by one once -- lucky he got prompt treatment. A telephone worker in my home town got bit by one hiding in an outdoor wiring cabinet and ended up losing his forearm because he was too macho to get treatment.
>
> >putting on shoes still unsettles me
>
> I was told a story about a scorpion in a hiking boot once.... Well you get the idea. Eeeuuwww!
>
> Ted
Posted by Ted on October 27, 2000, at 14:29:51
In reply to Re: Ted/Laural, posted by shar on October 27, 2000, at 12:44:50
Shar,
Re: Rattlesnakes, scorpions, desert centipedes (I knew them too!), tarantulas (harmless, really)...
[let's add tarantula-hawk wasps, yellow jackets, bees, and giant cicadas]Like I said before: I'm not afraid of any of them (well mostly not) unless they surprise me, then I freak out.
> Geez--no wonder we're so messed up!
Duh! :-) :-)
Ted
Posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 14:57:38
In reply to Re: Shar » coral, posted by shar on October 27, 2000, at 12:34:11
Dear Shar,
LOL!!! What a wacky world we "depressives" visit and often live in. Only another depressive could appreciate the true blessing in finding a dentist who can cope with my problems!!! I love it!Hell, dental difficulties aren't the problem, finding a GREAT dentist who can handle them is the problem!!!! I knew from your post that you'd understand.
I've left a message for him and will let you know as soon as I have an answer!
The mind/brain/body/psyche/soul connection is something to behold. A few years ago, a dentist gave me eleven injections, (he didn't use Nitrous) to attempt to numb a tooth for a simple cavity. He stopped and said that he didn't dare give me any more and we'd have to reschedule. I was as "un-numb" after 11 shots as when I walked in the door. However, once I was in my car and pulled out of his driveway, my entire right jaw, neck, shoulder and arm went completely numb. The next time I saw this dentist, I was tranqed to the gills and he still couldn't get it numb. I went to another dentist after that who did use nitrous and he was able to complete the work. However, the new dentist discovered that the old dentist had done so much damage through blatant incompetence that I had a 1/4" bone erosion in my jaw. I went to the county's dental review committee who voted unanimously in my favor so I sued him for malpractice and won.
Now, the question is: Did some part of me know that I was getting extremely substandard dental care and used my phobia as a means of getting me out of there? Or, was it just the luck of the draw?
I hope that my dentist will have a competent, kind, gentle and compassionate referral for you soon!
Coral
Posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 15:01:47
In reply to Re: Shar, posted by Ted on October 27, 2000, at 10:59:26
Dear Ted,
Thank you. Yes, it was abuse. This was during the days before lawsuits were the answer for everything and my father threatened the guy within an inch of his life. Not that I'm advocating threats!
Coral
Posted by Racer on October 27, 2000, at 17:04:19
In reply to Re: Ted, posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 15:01:47
I don't like spiders and snakes...
OK, it's only the spiders that really freak me out. Bugs of all kinds, actually. As for lobsters, I figure eating them with drawn butter is good revenge for their cousins scaring me so much -- as well as being delicious...
As for the phobia of having your blood pressure taken, you're trying to start too high up the ladder if you're thinking of taking it at home. Borrow a cuff, but only a cuff. Wear the cuff for a few days. Pump it up a little, and wear it some more. Don't pump it up all the way, just enough to feel some pressure. Once you get desensitized to wearing a pumped cuff, you're probably on the way to the point you can practice taking your own BP, which you should do in a doctor's office, with a nurse or someone to supervise -- not at home alone.
That sort of phobia is the worst! Mine is certain diagnostic tests. Two things terrify me: cancer, and infertility. The latter is likely, so it's one of those fears that has a good basis in fact. The former is obviously scary, and many of my paternal relatives have died of it. Scares the hell out of me, and since my favorite maternal great aunt died a few years ago from cancer found only days before her death, I'm terrified of x-rays. Talk about ironic, the fear of having an x-ray show cancer is expressed in part by a fear of having the x-ray damage my reproductive capacity! It hits two birds with one stone!
Then there's the dentist... I still can't watch Laurence Olivier in anything, he just creeps me out too much after Marathon Man...
Posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 19:09:15
In reply to EEEWWW!!!!!!, posted by Racer on October 27, 2000, at 17:04:19
Dear Racer,
Talk about a two-for one, huh? Racer, can you walk me through your phobias? Please give me as much detail as you feel comfortable sharing. Sometimes "phobia thinking" is circular, but don't be put off if that happens. Just write everything that comes to mind (again, that you feel comfortable sharing.) If you'd prefer to send it directly to my e-mail, please feel free to do so: coralcarson@excite.com
Your suggestion of S-L-O-W-L-Y moving with the bp apparatus makes sense. WARNING!!! Here comes the "phobia" speaking: If I don't kill myself by blowing an artery with the first step, I could go to step 2. Of course, now that I've been given a reasonable plan, the little-phobia demon will find a gazillion reasons to procrastinate! My gynecologist suggested that my husband take my bp while I was sleeping - he said that only when I was truly resting could an accurate bp be taken. That's not an option I'm likely to attempt - I have enough trouble sleeping without worrying about that. LOL
I need to get some info. how my present meds would affect bp. Any suggestions or offers on who are the pros on this board re: meds and bp?Funny about the spider thing - I find them wonderfully inspiring. During my first depressive episode, when the agony drove me off the couch, and death was soooo attractive, I'd head out of the house, find a spider and watch him/her spinning the webs. (I never disrupted -- just kept looking until I found one.) I thought about these fragile, little creatures, that with a strong gust of wind, everything that was home to them would be destroyed, and they'd just start spinning all over again. I also thought about the juxtaposition of the facts that spider silk is the strongest thing on earth (an rope made of spider silk can't be cut with a titanium diamond-edged blade), but in its almost invisible strands, it can be blown away with the lightest touch. I can't logically explain, but I found comfort, and enough inspiration to face one more day, from a spider . . .
Okay, okay..... I admit I'm nuts, but it worked for me! :)
Posted by shar on October 27, 2000, at 23:18:32
In reply to Re: Racer, posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 19:09:15
> Dear Racer,x
>
> Talk about a two-for one, huh? Racer, can you walk me through your phobias? Please give me as much detail as you feel comfortable sharing. Sometimes "phobia thinking" is circular, but don't be put off if that happens. Just write everything that comes to mind (again, that you feel comfortable sharing.) If you'd prefer to send it directly to my e-mail, please feel free to do so: coralcarson@excite.com
>
> Your suggestion of S-L-O-W-L-Y moving with the bp apparatus makes sense. WARNING!!! Here comes the "phobia" speaking: If I don't kill myself by blowing an artery with the first step, I could go to step 2. Of course, now that I've been given a reasonable plan, the little-phobia demon will find a gazillion reasons to procrastinate! My gynecologist suggested that my husband take my bp while I was sleeping - he said that only when I was truly resting could an accurate bp be taken. That's not an option I'm likely to attempt - I have enough trouble sleeping without worrying about that. LOL
> I need to get some info. how my present meds would affect bp. Any suggestions or offers on who are the pros on this board re: meds and bp?
>
> Funny about the spider thing - I find them wonderfully inspiring. During my first depressive episode, when the agony drove me off the couch, and death was soooo attractive, I'd head out of the house, find a spider and watch him/her spinning the webs. (I never disrupted -- just kept looking until I found one.) I thought about these fragile, little creatures, that with a strong gust of wind, everything that was home to them would be destroyed, and they'd just start spinning all over again. I also thought about the juxtaposition of the facts that spider silk is the strongest thing on earth (an rope made of spider silk can't be cut with a titanium diamond-edged blade), but in its almost invisible strands, it can be blown away with the lightest touch. I can't logically explain, but I found comfort, and enough inspiration to face one more day, from a spider . . .
>
> Okay, okay..... I admit I'm nuts, but it worked for me! :)
Posted by chdurie2 on October 28, 2000, at 0:12:46
In reply to Re: Phobias, posted by Cindy W on October 26, 2000, at 21:30:52
> > 1. Spiders & spider webs. Caused by growing up in the Arizona desert with black widow spiders. My job around the house was to go out after dark with a flashlight & flyswatter and kill every black widow. Now just touching a spider web unexpectedly makes me **JUMP**.
> >
> > This is an odd phobia. I am not afraid of spiders or their webs unless I am surprised by them. I can hold tarantulas if I pick them up. I just can't touch anything without control.
> >
> > 2. Things that go bump in the night when I am home alone. But I have no problem with rural camping & backpacking where I hear coyotes, mountain lions, squirrels, bears, etc. all night.
> >
> > Ted
>
> Coral, Laural, Shar, and Ted...I've always been terribly afraid of hypodermic needles, so can relate to what you've written (I have though become less afraid of spiders, since studying them and realizing I'm just another "surface" to them). Behavior therapy would probably be most helpful if you want to get rid of a phobia. I HATE going to the dentist or doctor, although I've finally learned to cope with blood tests without worrying for days in advance. When I had a breast biopsy this year, I insisted they use some stuff that completely anesthetized my breast locally, before they even gave me a local anesthetic, and I took Ativan to the point I was almost asleep, which helped. Consider behavior therapy (systematic desensitization); it has a good track record with phobias.Cindy W--As a former extreme needlephobic, let me tell you that there's nothing quite like having an illness where most of the things that help come only in syringes that you have to give yourself!
When I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome in 1994, my doctor said his office would teach me how to give myself shots. then, when he had a hard time keeping me still for his needle, he said he guessed his office couldn't teach me after all! (I have vivid memories as a kid of my pediatrician chasing me around his office to give me a shot!)
eighteen months after my cfs diagnosis, a cfs specialist told me most of the things that helped had to be self-injected daily (impractical to go to md that often.) i stared at her and asked how in the world could i do it. easy, she said.
disbelieving, i asked my pharmacist for help, then a diabetic i ran into. then, a boyfriend's daughter who is a nurse gave me very specific directions. the first time i winced even touching the needle to my skin. the next day i tried putting it in, but as i found out, the slower you go, the worse it is. my mother laughed, saying i must really have wanted to get well to overcome my needlephobia! (I did! A CFS friend, another needlephobic, has not gotten over her fear, and also has not gotten better.)
I knew I had really "graduated" when I could handle a 3-cc, 1.5 inch IM needle myself in my rear end!
Over the years, i've had thousands of needles, both self-administered and done by medical staffs.
but i was scared of a needle in my breast at my biopsy, even one filled with lidocaine. i made the doctor let me examine the needle to make sure it was as "baby-sized" as it was. although i still jumped, i found out it wasn't bad. and at my malignancy removals, i didn't even say boo.
but i did, however, draw the line, both at my tumor removals and another time with a cat scan, at a needle they wanted to give either in my wrist or hand. both areas are very sensitive, and i one had an iv in my hand/wrist, and it hurt a lot. the medical staff argued with me, saying they didn't see how i could hold my arm straight the whole time during my surgeries. I told them, "Try me. I'm a pro." they agreed, but only under the condition that if i bent my arm while asleep. they'd have to re-insert the iv in my hand/wrist. both times, when i woke up, the iv was still on the inside of my elbow as originally placed.
i have given myself 3-4 shots a day for the last five years; it's a chore that frequently makes bruise marks, but it's not painful.
cindy, i hope you're not grossed out by my account, but i had to smile at the description of your needlephobia. not a smile of superiority, but of recognition, of the days when "I remember when..."
caroline
Posted by Racer on October 28, 2000, at 14:44:26
In reply to Re: Racer, posted by coral on October 27, 2000, at 19:09:15
My phobia of x-rays? Only chest or pelvic x-rays. This isn't the big phobia in my life, that would be what we call 'paralegals': bugs! The x-ray phobia is weirder. I guess because I've only had my chest/pelvis x-rayed when I was sick, but I have had a total hysteric reaction each time, that they're going to find cancer and won't be able to treat it. Again, this happened to a couple of my relatives: by the time the cancer was found, there was nothing to be done. I think the part about fertility is an overlay: the real fear is death by cancer, the auxilliary is that the x-rays will damage my ovaries. Does that make any sense? Well, if it does, then it's a lousy phobia, huh?
As for bugs in general and spiders in particular, I'm fascinated by them too. I like to read about ants, termites (Soul of the White Ant, great book), bees, etc. And I can watch them, too, for a while, and sometimes even let them come near me. But I can't kill them myself, can't chase them outside, can't stay in a room with loose bugs, etc. Maybe it's partly because I'm very allergic to bites from spiders, wasps and bee stings. At any rate, I know that I get bitten by a lot of bugs, probably because my skin is thin enough for them to bite through, and it always swells and usually hurts. Hell, I even get bitten by the deer flies at the barn! Cute little things? Their mouths must be twice the size of their heads, the way it hurts! (NB: as someone who works with horses, my threshold of pain is pretty high. I don't yell when I'm stepped on, don't cry when I'm dumped, swear like a sailor when I'm kicked, but who wouldn't? Those little buggers *hurt*)
Your fascination with the spiders sounds healthy to me, btw. A way of putting your own pain in perspective. For me, it's usually poetry: On Wenlock Edge, Ich grolle nicht, Hiemweh, Epitaph on an army of mercenaries, etc. Who cares how silly or weird it may seem to others if it works!
As for the slow pace of desensitizing yourself, that comes from horse training. The idea in any sort of work in that area is to start out with something that isn't upsetting. For example, my mare was terrified by whips of any sort. I'd start out by carrying a whip when I was grooming her. She was scared and trembling at first, but then relaxed because she likes being groomed. Eventually, she ignored the whip. Then, I'd touch her with the whip, tickle her with it, hold it close to a place I was rubbing, until she ignored being touched by it. Eventually, I got on holding it, and didn't use it. Finally, I could smack her with it and she'd respond without turning herself inside out over it. (She's lazy as sin, and the whip is a reminder to listen to my leg -- not an abuse. Besides, we were showing sidesaddle, too, in those days. Sidesaddle you use a stick in place of your right leg.) Anyway, it's just a case of slow and easy and nothing scary. Good luck!
(You know, I almost with I could be there to help you along with this. Phobia stuff interests me, and helping people get over it always makes me feel good. I've worked a lot with my mother to get her over her fear of dogs and horses, and it's always interesting to see the results of different techniques at different times...)
(And yes, it is interesting that my mother is so very frightened of horses, considering I've been riding since I was six, and she supported it all along. My mother the Squirrel. At least I'm my mother's daughter...)
Posted by coral on October 28, 2000, at 15:23:56
In reply to Re: Coral..., posted by Racer on October 28, 2000, at 14:44:26
First, re: the horses - I'm with you all the way. I normally take x-race horses and re-orient them into hunters/jumpers - give me the "hot" ones and, with gentleness, love, patience and fun, we'll convert that energy into into hunters and jumpers with plenty of heart and courage. I'm proud that my horses have all enjoyed jumping at liberty. I, too, ride aside!
I, too, wish you were here to help with the bp thingy!
Now, for your phobias - since your fear of x-rays is of what may be found (and probably --- well, the fear is definitely --- too late to do anything about it), have you considered learning all of the early warning signs? Not that I'm encouraging "hypochondria", but if you know the very early warning signs, and do periodic checks, that may ease your mind, and reduce need for the x-rays which understandably ignite your concerns re: fertility. Does this make any sense to you?
As far as the bug thing goes, if you're allergic, your fear is VERY healthy!!! Allergies from bees can instantly zoom to just irritation to life-threatening. I presume the same is true for other bugs that bite.
Deer flies' bites HURT. Nothing wrong with avoiding that. I once got bitten on the ear and had a swelling so large I couldn't get on my hard hat! It's no wonder that even a dead-head, "child-safe", cold-blooded quarter horse will buck if bitten by a horse fly!
Posted by Cindy W on October 28, 2000, at 22:24:56
In reply to Re: Phobias: needles--Cindy W. » Cindy W, posted by chdurie2 on October 28, 2000, at 0:12:46
> > > 1. Spiders & spider webs. Caused by growing up in the Arizona desert with black widow spiders. My job around the house was to go out after dark with a flashlight & flyswatter and kill every black widow. Now just touching a spider web unexpectedly makes me **JUMP**.
> > >
> > > This is an odd phobia. I am not afraid of spiders or their webs unless I am surprised by them. I can hold tarantulas if I pick them up. I just can't touch anything without control.
> > >
> > > 2. Things that go bump in the night when I am home alone. But I have no problem with rural camping & backpacking where I hear coyotes, mountain lions, squirrels, bears, etc. all night.
> > >
> > > Ted
> >
> > Coral, Laural, Shar, and Ted...I've always been terribly afraid of hypodermic needles, so can relate to what you've written (I have though become less afraid of spiders, since studying them and realizing I'm just another "surface" to them). Behavior therapy would probably be most helpful if you want to get rid of a phobia. I HATE going to the dentist or doctor, although I've finally learned to cope with blood tests without worrying for days in advance. When I had a breast biopsy this year, I insisted they use some stuff that completely anesthetized my breast locally, before they even gave me a local anesthetic, and I took Ativan to the point I was almost asleep, which helped. Consider behavior therapy (systematic desensitization); it has a good track record with phobias.
>
> Cindy W--As a former extreme needlephobic, let me tell you that there's nothing quite like having an illness where most of the things that help come only in syringes that you have to give yourself!
>
> When I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome in 1994, my doctor said his office would teach me how to give myself shots. then, when he had a hard time keeping me still for his needle, he said he guessed his office couldn't teach me after all! (I have vivid memories as a kid of my pediatrician chasing me around his office to give me a shot!)
>
> eighteen months after my cfs diagnosis, a cfs specialist told me most of the things that helped had to be self-injected daily (impractical to go to md that often.) i stared at her and asked how in the world could i do it. easy, she said.
>
> disbelieving, i asked my pharmacist for help, then a diabetic i ran into. then, a boyfriend's daughter who is a nurse gave me very specific directions. the first time i winced even touching the needle to my skin. the next day i tried putting it in, but as i found out, the slower you go, the worse it is. my mother laughed, saying i must really have wanted to get well to overcome my needlephobia! (I did! A CFS friend, another needlephobic, has not gotten over her fear, and also has not gotten better.)
>
> I knew I had really "graduated" when I could handle a 3-cc, 1.5 inch IM needle myself in my rear end!
>
> Over the years, i've had thousands of needles, both self-administered and done by medical staffs.
>
> but i was scared of a needle in my breast at my biopsy, even one filled with lidocaine. i made the doctor let me examine the needle to make sure it was as "baby-sized" as it was. although i still jumped, i found out it wasn't bad. and at my malignancy removals, i didn't even say boo.
>
> but i did, however, draw the line, both at my tumor removals and another time with a cat scan, at a needle they wanted to give either in my wrist or hand. both areas are very sensitive, and i one had an iv in my hand/wrist, and it hurt a lot. the medical staff argued with me, saying they didn't see how i could hold my arm straight the whole time during my surgeries. I told them, "Try me. I'm a pro." they agreed, but only under the condition that if i bent my arm while asleep. they'd have to re-insert the iv in my hand/wrist. both times, when i woke up, the iv was still on the inside of my elbow as originally placed.
>
> i have given myself 3-4 shots a day for the last five years; it's a chore that frequently makes bruise marks, but it's not painful.
>
> cindy, i hope you're not grossed out by my account, but i had to smile at the description of your needlephobia. not a smile of superiority, but of recognition, of the days when "I remember when..."
>
> carolineCaroline, I enjoyed your account of desensitizing yourself to needles! I can only hope I never have to do what you did (I'm not that brave!) ;)
Posted by Racer on October 28, 2000, at 22:59:54
In reply to Re: Coral..., posted by coral on October 28, 2000, at 15:23:56
See, my theory is that those hot headed TBs are mostly lazy as an irish bricklayer! I know my mare was 'hot' when we met, knew only two gaits: straight ahead on the forehand gallop and jiggy walk. Turns out that's because it's much harder to trot, and harder still to trot in balance! Took forever to fix it, with everyone around laughing because I'd tell her, over and over, "this is the way the grown up horses do it, grown up horses carry themselves, and don't fall on their noses..."
And the fear of what they'll find has a lot to do with having certain symptoms and certain worry markers for cancer: first degree relatives, smoking, bloody stools, etc. Too bad I'm uninsured, huh? This is in the catagory of reasonable enough fears that I can't do anything much about right now, so I'm in denial as the only rational way to handle it.
This is the end of the thread.
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