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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by obsidian on January 15, 2011, at 11:25:34
I am having a hard time. :-(
I know I'll come out of it eventually.
..but it might not be for a while.so....
I'm scared
about what I won't say
Posted by Dinah on January 16, 2011, at 8:36:37
In reply to Unknow what?........, posted by obsidian on January 15, 2011, at 11:25:34
((( Sid )))
Are you able to share your worries with someone? Worries shared are often worries eased.
(I wish I'd take my own advice there. When I'm scared, I do a decent bunny impersonation and burrow deep in my lair.)
Posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 8:44:35
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » obsidian, posted by Dinah on January 16, 2011, at 8:36:37
> ((( Sid )))
>
> Are you able to share your worries with someone? Worries shared are often worries eased.aint that the truth. It's funny how after putting it all out on the table with someone who cares.. it starts looking a whole lot less menacing.
> (I wish I'd take my own advice there. When I'm scared, I do a decent bunny impersonation and burrow deep in my lair.):-) my therapist calls it my 'cave.' Sometimes I really do like my cave...
Solstice
Posted by obsidian on January 16, 2011, at 14:52:11
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » obsidian, posted by Dinah on January 16, 2011, at 8:36:37
Hi Dinah, I've been wondering how you are.
How are you?
I'm working on the talking to other people about it thing. For today, I am up and will be productive.
I keep getting sad though. And then I just want to hide.
Thanks for responding.
Posted by obsidian on January 16, 2011, at 14:56:15
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........, posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 8:44:35
Me too solstice. I can make a nice cave.
Posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 17:09:46
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » Solstice, posted by obsidian on January 16, 2011, at 14:56:15
> Me too solstice. I can make a nice cave.
I love a kindred spirit :-)
At first, my therapist tried to push me out of my cave... T was sure that my depression would abate if I got more involved with people.. that success would build upon success. I dug in my heels and would NOT be moved! I went to therapy - and for a good time, except for my children, that was the extent of my human contact (well.. except for other perfunctory contact - like the checkout person at the grocery).
The push and pull between T and I over this was frustrating for both of us. I couldn't leave my nice, warm, safe cave of isolation because it was just too dang risky for me. What I realized in retrospect is that the funny thing is that during that long period of cave-dwelling, that's when I developed the ability to trust my T. I didn't realize that I hadn't known what real trust was, until I experienced it. It was like therapy was this tiny microcosm, wherein I experienced some developmental things I'd been deprived of. A lot of it was just the day in and day out therapeutic experiences that were usually not 'planned' or anticipated. They just spontaneously happened. A good part of it included rupture and repair. I later described it as it beling like there was a honeycomb (my foundational experiences) that were full of empty combs. These therapeutic experiences I had with T seemed to one-by-one filling them in.. and as a result.. I felt a growing sturdiness to my who inner structure. T was always fascinated by my descriptions of these experiences, because it was in opposition to my T's basic premise that I needed to gradually enter more and more 'real' relationships. We've talked about it since.. and I've told T that I really don't think I would have done well if I'd let myself be pushed out of my cave before I felt 'whole' enough to manage. One thing that I have absolutely loved about my T has been T's willingness to let me dig in my heels and not move - if that's what I needed to do. What's been interesting to me, is that while in that isolated cave where I felt so safe - the only risk I had to take was whether my T was up to the challenge and could figure out how to 'be' what I needed. Lucky for me, T was able to do it.. and as a result, I went through a whole series of things that are classic developmental stages. It was never characterized as (or even thought of) as 're-parenting' but in reality, I think it served that purpose. In that cave, T facilitated my ability to become firmly attached... at times responded to me in a way that made me feel like a child tied to a parent (without it being overt)... at times generated a protective energy that enveloped me in a sense of safety... at times was in my balcony applauding. Sometimes in therapy in sharing my 'stories' I felt like a little kid taking a drawing to my parent.. where it was ooh'd and aah'd over.. declared as really special.. and hung on the refrigerator with parental eyes lighting up with pride. There was something profoundly healing about those dynamics for me - even though they were never spelled out. It was like we both were aware of what was taking place - but neither of us wanted to break the mysterious spell of it by trying to describe it.
Anyway.. my T got really happy when I started talking about people in therapy. T would say "Oh! I'm so glad you brought R_ _ _ _ _ _ _d in here today!" Little by little I started venturing out of that cave.. but it was entirely dependent on the security of my connection to T. After a while, I realized I was able to do more and more without my T's assistance. T would *make* me describe successes in excruciating detail - and make me say outloud every thing I did right - and recognize every positive bit of feedback I got from others. In a way, I created myself, discovered myself, experimented with myself.. in that cave. So although my T seems to think more negatively about my cave, I have a lot of fondness for it. It's off to the side a little - but it's in view. I like it. A lot. It's there for me if I need it. Sometimes something will happen that makes me feel threatened.. and I'll scoot in my cave and turn my back to the opening. But I've gotten a LOT better at sorting through things faster.. and pretty soon I'm antsy to get out of my cushy little cave. I think part of the reason is because I internalized so many therapeutic experiences with my therapist, that I take a lot with me when I leave my cave.. maybe it's like a turtle. I know how to go out there, and pull into my shell if things get weird for me 'out there.' In any event, the bottom line is that so much of my trauma has been healed.. and for the most part.. I know how to be ok when I'm away from my cave. But I do love my cave... :-)
Solstice
Posted by Twinleaf on January 16, 2011, at 19:30:00
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........, posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 17:09:46
What you wrote is just wonderful, and very inspiring. It's such a clear description of how therapy can work for people with neglect or abuse in their backgrounds. My experience is very similar to yours - in particular, working through the ruptures and repairs, and experiencing being the "sparkle" in my therapist's eyes . It was all about him and me until recently; we were both very surprised (and pleased) when other people began playing important parts in the therapy hours. But a lot of very special things had to happen between us first.
I want to print out your post to show him, as he is especially interested in what precise elements in therapy are the most
useful and transformative. Thanks!
Posted by obsidian on January 16, 2011, at 20:22:57
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » obsidian, posted by Dinah on January 16, 2011, at 8:36:37
I spoke a bit to my dear one about it. He seems to understand a lot. I am glad for that.
Posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 21:14:30
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » Solstice, posted by Twinleaf on January 16, 2011, at 19:30:00
> What you wrote is just wonderful, and very inspiring. It's such a clear description of how therapy can work for people with neglect or abuse in their backgrounds. My experience is very similar to yours - in particular, working through the ruptures and repairs, and experiencing being the "sparkle" in my therapist's eyes . It was all about him and me until recently; we were both very surprised (and pleased) when other people began playing important parts in the therapy hours. But a lot of very special things had to happen between us first.
>
> I want to print out your post to show him, as he is especially interested in what precise elements in therapy are the most
> useful and transformative. Thanks!
Twin.. I'm honored if there's something about my musings that's useful. I love what you said about being the 'sparkle' in yoru therapist's eyes. It's the perfect word for it.. and yes.. that is what I've experienced - over and over and over again with my T. You got me thinking.. and since I never felt I mattered in my early primary relationships, it took a looooong time for me to really believe I could trust what was taking place in therapy. Seeing that 'sparkle' created some painful dynamics for me. I would hide from it, ignore it, be dismissive of the inherent emotional intimacy coming toward me, and spent a good bit of time being really afraid of believing it was genuine.. of believing I was cared for and could count on it not arbitrarily disappearing. It really did take a long, long time. On my therapist's end - I think it had to have been demanding to be so consistently 'there' with such a long period of time with no sign that it was reaching those wounded places. I fought so hard against it.I think that the specific things that were so effective in my case were:
1. My T created an environment that facilitated emotional intimacy that did not require me to do anything. I could turn my back on it, be afraid of it, disavow it, pretend it didn't exist. It never moved. It never changed. My reaction (or lack of reaction) did not affect its stability. THAT was powerful!
2. My T was profoundly patient, and equally important, T was NEVER defensive. I was never held responsible for repairing any problem that arose. For me, that was a big deal because of my history. It was also a component of the 're-parenting' feature. T modeled for me healthy responses to just about everything imaginable that came up between us. That was THE really powerful thing. One experience at a time, it chipped away at the lifetime of experiences I had collected from the beginning that left me so frightened, so anxious, feeling so worthless interpersonally.If I were asked to identify the Most important thing a therapist can do - it would be to monitor their own defensive responses to anything their client/patient says. It's not about never making mistakes - but if they do make a mistake - they MUST address it, and repair the defensive mistep. My therapist's nondefensiveness toward me healed a lifetime of relationship trauma within me, and resulted in my tapes being re-written to the point that responding nondefensively comes so much more naturally to me... and feeling defensive feels foreign.
Solstice
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 17, 2011, at 22:13:36
In reply to Re: Unknow what?........ » Twinleaf, posted by Solstice on January 16, 2011, at 21:14:30
I like what you said about your T never being defensive. I feel like I have the best T in the world. He always takes responsibility for anything he says that upsets or hurts me. If he is annoyed or angry or hurtful in any way, he immediately apologizes. It has taught me a lot about how to not be defensive myself and to take responsibility for my role in relationships. I used to be very defensive and unable to handle conflict in a relationship. I'm not like this anymore and believe the example of my T is responsible for this.
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