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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Enigma on November 1, 2010, at 18:15:50
On a different front...
In a PBS special I just watched - I wish I had the name, it's on their web site, watchable over the web.. they did a very good job explaining what it's like to have severe depression, but I was very upset as they ended each person's story on a happy note. Even the one story about the person that committed suicide. I understand that they might be doing that intentionally as to give hope to depressed people and families of depressed people, but it's not realistic at all. Many people don't have the kind of family support, or friend support structures presented in the program. I sure don't. The section on DBS they did only described ONE success story, no others, and none of the failures, and explained how it gave the patient their "life back". Goodie for them, but again, what about the failures? If you're going to present INFORMATION, present both sides of the story. There were much sadder cases out there (like mine) than the people they picked for the show.They went on to say that this one person had to try a whopping 6 meds before they found one that worked for them. SIX?? I've got a list of about 30+ med cocktails I've tried and they didn't mention side effects AT ALL, also, all of these patients doctors seemed to really know their meds. I've been to a dozen doctors and I can't BEGIN to tell you how inept they were at treating me. For about 2-3 of the docs I went to, I quite literally told THEM what to prescribe me, from research I DID, and then I PAID THEM.
One patient mentioned (I believe) 2 drugs he was taking to prevent weight gain from the Remeron and other meds he was taking (the only side-effect ever mentioned, and it was just from a patient, not mentioned in the special, as information of the drug-approach to treating depression. From being on this site for YEARS and taking meds for 17+ years, I've NEVER heard of those meds, ever. How is that possible? How can there be such a disparity been psychiatrists out there. Don't they share information? Ever hear of the internet? I literally wanted to throw a brick at my monitor I got so angry watching ALL of the success stories and 0 failures. It was like an ABS family movie instead a documentary or accurate depiction about depression. Present ALL the facts - don't water it down. That doesn't help anyone.
I wrote them an angry letter, professional, but angry, asking them where in the world they find the patients they use for their television specials and why wasn't there one case where the person couldn't be helped (minus the suicide). They still ended that with his parents starting up some organization to help college students with depression and such, so even that story had a happy ending.
What are patients like me supposed to do? How are we supposed to find doctors that are THAT knowledgeable? I was blown away with the med mix one patient was on. It was about 6 different meds. No doctor ever had me on that many meds, but I'd sure as hell try it if it worked!!! - no one in my area, and I even tried the Boston area, but was denied and had doors slammed in my face at every turn. Not accepting new patients, was what I heard, *everywhere*, and quit after they stopped giving me referrals and I was back to "regular" shrinks again, those that knew nothing about treatment resistant depression or even a inkling of how to treat it.
I'm still going to show "parts" of the special to my two older kids, because it explains, like I said, what it's like to have depression, in a unique way, but I think it provides false hopes for the treatment resistant types, plus, all the people that cannot find properly trainer psychiatrists.
I don't live in a backwater village/state either, so it's extremely sad how poor the quality of doctors (psychiatrists) in my area are (and I've been all over the state).. In general too, not just for treatment resistant types. I have tons of Dr. horror stories. Just one. One doc, knowing I was bipolar, and he SHOULD have know that SRRI's barely help bi-polar patients, would just let his Rx sales rep "teach" him about meds (and we all know what a great source that is for information - I actually knew guys who did this for a living, and hung out with them), and all he would do every two weeks is hand me sample packs after sample packs, as each one failed (as he should have known they would), he just kept giving me more sample packs, still warm from the hands of his Rx salesman. That was his treatment plan for me. If one didn't work, give me the next sample pack. No research, no looking up my disorder anywhere, no consulting with colleagues, nothing, and I have many more doctors who were not that different from this clown.
And people wonder why I have such disdain for doctors in general. My experience with Gastro-docs, and other specialists who had no cure and no idea for other maladies I suffered from, after a lot of money flowed out of my wallet, and time, and pain, especially the pain, 2nd opinions, still nothing.
Then after all that my latest PCP gave me attitude (because I was depressed - no lie!!) - never in my life had I witnessed such unprofessional behavior from a doctor, even after I told him how many visits I've made over the years and had not received even close to a remedy, he still berated me (about my depressed attitude). And how exactly would yelling at a severely depressed person actually help (who was also suffering from chronic-unexplained-headaches, and chronic-unexplained-stomach aches, for over one month, 24/7 ?. I was one inch away from knocking him out. Literally. Last time I ever saw him, or will.Even I have a hard time believing in my own experiences half the time. Really.
Posted by lucielu2 on November 1, 2010, at 21:48:58
In reply to Overly 'positive' PBS special on depression..., posted by Enigma on November 1, 2010, at 18:15:50
I know what you mean, it is irritating to see complex things presented in a superficial and biased manner. One wouls hope they'd raise the subject of treatment refractory depression, maybe even talk about alternatives like trans-cranial magnetic stimulation, but it would seem good journalism to at least introduce the possibility that treatments may not work.
My other beef with the field is that most of the psych meds can put weight on you, in many cases, LOTS of weight. This is rarely considered, despite the fact of the epidemic of obesity, metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. Clinicians rarely talk about it, except within the usual disclaimer of symptoms that you might experience. Why is there no outcry about meds that can cause 20-30+ pound weight gains? Why do we have to chose between depression and diabetes?
> On a different front...
> In a PBS special I just watched - I wish I had the name, it's on their web site, watchable over the web.. they did a very good job explaining what it's like to have severe depression, but I was very upset as they ended each person's story on a happy note. Even the one story about the person that committed suicide. I understand that they might be doing that intentionally as to give hope to depressed people and families of depressed people, but it's not realistic at all. Many people don't have the kind of family support, or friend support structures presented in the program. I sure don't. The section on DBS they did only described ONE success story, no others, and none of the failures, and explained how it gave the patient their "life back". Goodie for them, but again, what about the failures? If you're going to present INFORMATION, present both sides of the story. There were much sadder cases out there (like mine) than the people they picked for the show.
>
> They went on to say that this one person had to try a whopping 6 meds before they found one that worked for them. SIX?? I've got a list of about 30+ med cocktails I've tried and they didn't mention side effects AT ALL, also, all of these patients doctors seemed to really know their meds. I've been to a dozen doctors and I can't BEGIN to tell you how inept they were at treating me. For about 2-3 of the docs I went to, I quite literally told THEM what to prescribe me, from research I DID, and then I PAID THEM.
>
> One patient mentioned (I believe) 2 drugs he was taking to prevent weight gain from the Remeron and other meds he was taking (the only side-effect ever mentioned, and it was just from a patient, not mentioned in the special, as information of the drug-approach to treating depression. From being on this site for YEARS and taking meds for 17+ years, I've NEVER heard of those meds, ever. How is that possible? How can there be such a disparity been psychiatrists out there. Don't they share information? Ever hear of the internet? I literally wanted to throw a brick at my monitor I got so angry watching ALL of the success stories and 0 failures. It was like an ABS family movie instead a documentary or accurate depiction about depression. Present ALL the facts - don't water it down. That doesn't help anyone.
>
> I wrote them an angry letter, professional, but angry, asking them where in the world they find the patients they use for their television specials and why wasn't there one case where the person couldn't be helped (minus the suicide). They still ended that with his parents starting up some organization to help college students with depression and such, so even that story had a happy ending.
>
> What are patients like me supposed to do? How are we supposed to find doctors that are THAT knowledgeable? I was blown away with the med mix one patient was on. It was about 6 different meds. No doctor ever had me on that many meds, but I'd sure as hell try it if it worked!!! - no one in my area, and I even tried the Boston area, but was denied and had doors slammed in my face at every turn. Not accepting new patients, was what I heard, *everywhere*, and quit after they stopped giving me referrals and I was back to "regular" shrinks again, those that knew nothing about treatment resistant depression or even a inkling of how to treat it.
>
> I'm still going to show "parts" of the special to my two older kids, because it explains, like I said, what it's like to have depression, in a unique way, but I think it provides false hopes for the treatment resistant types, plus, all the people that cannot find properly trainer psychiatrists.
>
> I don't live in a backwater village/state either, so it's extremely sad how poor the quality of doctors (psychiatrists) in my area are (and I've been all over the state).. In general too, not just for treatment resistant types. I have tons of Dr. horror stories. Just one. One doc, knowing I was bipolar, and he SHOULD have know that SRRI's barely help bi-polar patients, would just let his Rx sales rep "teach" him about meds (and we all know what a great source that is for information - I actually knew guys who did this for a living, and hung out with them), and all he would do every two weeks is hand me sample packs after sample packs, as each one failed (as he should have known they would), he just kept giving me more sample packs, still warm from the hands of his Rx salesman. That was his treatment plan for me. If one didn't work, give me the next sample pack. No research, no looking up my disorder anywhere, no consulting with colleagues, nothing, and I have many more doctors who were not that different from this clown.
>
> And people wonder why I have such disdain for doctors in general. My experience with Gastro-docs, and other specialists who had no cure and no idea for other maladies I suffered from, after a lot of money flowed out of my wallet, and time, and pain, especially the pain, 2nd opinions, still nothing.
> Then after all that my latest PCP gave me attitude (because I was depressed - no lie!!) - never in my life had I witnessed such unprofessional behavior from a doctor, even after I told him how many visits I've made over the years and had not received even close to a remedy, he still berated me (about my depressed attitude). And how exactly would yelling at a severely depressed person actually help (who was also suffering from chronic-unexplained-headaches, and chronic-unexplained-stomach aches, for over one month, 24/7 ?. I was one inch away from knocking him out. Literally. Last time I ever saw him, or will.
>
> Even I have a hard time believing in my own experiences half the time. Really.
Posted by emmanuel98 on November 1, 2010, at 21:55:42
In reply to Overly 'positive' PBS special on depression..., posted by Enigma on November 1, 2010, at 18:15:50
Chronic unexplained headaches and stomachaches are often symptoms of untreated depression. I had chronic abdominal pain for almost a year, severe pain, no explanation, tons of tests. It wasn't until I got off the pain meds and realized I was depressed that I saw a p-doc who told me the pain was probably psychosomatic. At first I resisted this, but now I know he was probably right. Even if I actually had some transient pain, I built it up in my head until it was some undetected tumor that was going to kill me. Non p-docs get frustrated with inexplicable pains. They do their tests, assume they are psychosomatic but are embarrassed to suggest a p-doc or therapist. Have you tried therapy instead of just meds? It seems you have a lot of content to your depression -- feeling you will never again have a loving relationship with a woman, etc. Maybe it would help to talk to somebody about this. God knows Boston is full of experienced therapists. I found a therapist by calling about 50 people and saying to please call me back if you're taking new patients. Only 4 or 5 called back, but of those I found an excellent therapist and p-doc. I know Boston is a haul from NH, but it's really the medical mecca of NE.
Posted by Enigma on November 2, 2010, at 11:08:40
In reply to Re: Overly 'positive' PBS special on depression..., posted by emmanuel98 on November 1, 2010, at 21:55:42
> Chronic unexplained headaches and stomachaches are often symptoms of untreated depression. I had chronic abdominal pain for almost a year, severe pain, no explanation, tons of tests. It wasn't until I got off the pain meds and realized I was depressed that I saw a p-doc who told me the pain was probably psychosomatic. At first I resisted this, but now I know he was probably right. Even if I actually had some transient pain, I built it up in my head until it was some undetected tumor that was going to kill me. Non p-docs get frustrated with inexplicable pains. They do their tests, assume they are psychosomatic but are embarrassed to suggest a p-doc or therapist. Have you tried therapy instead of just meds? It seems you have a lot of content to your depression -- feeling you will never again have a loving relationship with a woman, etc. Maybe it would help to talk to somebody about this. God knows Boston is full of experienced therapists. I found a therapist by calling about 50 people and saying to please call me back if you're taking new patients. Only 4 or 5 called back, but of those I found an excellent therapist and p-doc. I know Boston is a haul from NH, but it's really the medical mecca of NE.
The stomach problems eventually went away on their own, and the headaches mostly did as well, and they might have actually been sinus related.. either another sinus infection, or sinusitus.. I forget if that's the same thing or not.. My headaches improved when I stopped the useless, non-working selegeline and started taking sinus pain/pressure meds (as you can't take them with an MAOI or risk dying!).
I still have odd lingering stomach pain here and there, but no way near the severity it was, and no nausea now, so it's completely tolerable. The headaches get bad sometimes, but I just keep popping sinus pills, and/or excedrine migraine and deal with it.
Oh yeah, therapists have been a complete waste of my time. I only met one good on out a a dozen or so in my life and she could only help me so much before the appointment were just a waste of time. I'm too scientific, mathematical, and analytical about certain things and once I make a determination about something, it's usually based on a great deal of "real-world" testing, probability and statistics, and so on, so the therapists just can't compete with that. They don't know how to counter argue some judgment or determination I've arrived at that took me possibly years to come up with.
Say, my "dream girl". It me 14 years to find her. Even while unhappily married, I've always been looking. Only one woman out of that entire time met all my criteria. I've been going out, socially, over this entire time period as well. I am ridiculously picky, sure, probably. No doubt. Did I meet other women I was attracted to that probably would have made me happy, yes, definitely, but sadly, they were either married, or were unavailable, or not attracted to me. So, after fruitlessly searching for my entire adult life, and a year of heavy use and experience with dating sites of all kinds, I can say with all confidence that the odds of meeting someone just like her again, who's actually interested in me, let alone would accept me with no job, my mental illness, 3 children, only disability as income (that I would now have to split with my lazy, errr, I don't want to go there, ex-wife to be), are near zero. I tell a therapist that, and they just simply agree with me or usually just say nothing, if they are smart.
I can't help what I like, what I want, and how I'm wired. The therapists seem to catch on to that pretty quickly. Friend-wise, they know the realities there too. I've been 10x the friend to anyone I've ever met in my life. It's just who I am.
I've always been there for them, bailed them out of jail (nothing serious) at 4 am, protected them many times over when they got drunk and crossed swords with another guy and almost got their ass kicked, never ever blew someone off, never ever canceled - especially at the last minute, been there when they got divorced and needed someone there when they were depressed, yet none of these things were ever reciprocated.
I've never met my match in that dept. Maybe one guy, but he moved away, so.. I always get let down, and I always get hurt, back-stabbed, lied to, etc.. I eliminated all of these losers from my life, and I'm aggression free, but also don't have a single person to go to a bar with and even talk to a woman anymore, let alone have a good time.
Many couldn't even give me 1 night a month. I even tried to change the venue to make it easy for them to see me, and still, nothing.
Guys don't seem to need another guy friend as much as I need them. Maybe it's my lack of a family that makes me need them more, that's what I always thought it was anyway. Unless a guy in unemployed, he really doesn't need other men in his life.. most men are like that anyway. Every guy I know pretty much disappeared as a woman came into their lives. That goes from age 15 to 40. No guy really made much of an attempt to keep up appearances after the "woman" entered the picture.
If I left a job, I tried to keep in touch, they never did. Eventually, I stopped trying.
I find that women seem to have much deeper bonds and much closer relationships than men do. I really envy that. Guys seem to lack the compassion, caring, empathy and so many other qualities that I seem to have, like many women have. Not sure why I have them...I sure as hell didn't get them from my parents.
Then add in my lack of interest in sports, and now forget about even being able to communicate with most men. As far as my wife's side of the family goes (which I stopped communicating with about 1-2 years ago), all they even talk about is sports. That's pretty much it. Every SINGLE get-together. No politics, no current events, just sports. Every statistic, ever stupid name, batting average, whatever, and who cares!!! Even Christmas. I dreaded these get-together's and mostly just hung around with the kids. At least I enjoyed that. Now that's gone too.
I tried classified ads to meet men and most people turn out to be some type of freak (into odd sexual practices) - even when I mention - "do NOT email me about sex" in my ad, they do anyway, or a closet homosexual, seriously, pretending to be straight, which I do NOT understand, as there are gay/lesbian forums right next to the "strictly platonic" forums, so they are cross-posting and ruining the validity of the forums for everyone. I've tried other sites, and going it alone, and that has NEVER worked, and I can do any volunteering to meet people, as any physical labor just kicks off my overheating/sweating side-effect from Nardil that I still have (even though I've been off Nardil for 2-3 months now), and I'm afraid will never go away.
Well, you've all heard me rant and rave and complain about this garbage before..
I sound like my mother. Bleah..
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2010, at 12:54:23
In reply to Re: Overly 'positive' PBS special on depression..., posted by Enigma on November 2, 2010, at 11:08:40
> almost got their [*]ss kicked
Please don't use language that could offend others.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies is in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceIf you turn off automatic asterisking, you have more freedom to express yourself, but you're also responsible for your language.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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