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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:04:50
But the last time I did, I felt responsible for Katrina. Silly, I know, but some primitive part of me really believes in the fates.
Posted by vwoolf on August 2, 2010, at 15:47:32
In reply to I want to talk about something, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:04:50
What is it you want to talk about?
Posted by jane d on August 2, 2010, at 20:57:20
In reply to I want to talk about something, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:04:50
What a horrible bind to be in. Does it matter where you talk about it? Would talking to your therapist or a friend be ok but not posting about it? Or vice versa? Or does it feel like it's the act of your talking about it that triggers the fates?
I have had that feeling myself a few time but I've been very lucky. Nothing catastrophic has ever happened afterwards to reinforce it.
Posted by obsidian on August 2, 2010, at 21:46:42
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » Dinah, posted by jane d on August 2, 2010, at 20:57:20
you're scared about something?
but too afraid to talk about it?
thinking doesn't make it so...
Posted by obsidian on August 2, 2010, at 21:51:29
In reply to I want to talk about something, posted by Dinah on August 2, 2010, at 12:04:50
I wonder if you had a sense of something instead of being "responsible" for it. Sounds like an awful burden to bear. :-(
You've got me thinking about the stuff I posted below...different sort of thing, but unexplainable and/or possibly unreasonable just the same.
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 13:21:25
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » Dinah, posted by obsidian on August 2, 2010, at 21:51:29
My therapist just calls me schizotypal.
Yes, sid. It is more or less in the same vein as what you posted about. And for me, it's so often come to be true.
I'm trying to figure out what I can and can't say. *Thinking* something seems to be ok. It's saying it that catches the attention of the fates.
Ok, I know there are no fates. But...
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 13:24:53
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » Dinah, posted by vwoolf on August 2, 2010, at 15:47:32
It's about therapy, and my feelings about therapy.
I think I can say that I've started being as late for therapy as I am for everything else in my life. I was always on time before. And while I used to want to call for extra sessions, now I'm more likely to consider that there are other things I maybe ought to be doing in the mornings twice a week.
I still occasionally want to call my therapist between sessions, but more and more I'm handling things on my own.
I'm scared about what that might mean. And I'm sort of afraid to even mention it.
Posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 14:28:28
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » vwoolf, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 13:24:53
That sounds like the last year or two of my therapy... Torn between clinging and wanting to leave.
If you are arriving late without knowing why, perhaps it has something to do with unconscious motivations. Dreaming, or art or any other kind of creative activity can help to clarify what the underlying motives are.
I found it was really important to listen to my dreams, to what my unconscious was telling me. I had very clear dreams about what was not working in my therapy, and when I found that my therapist was unable to address the issues I was raising, I understood that it was time to move on. I found the strength from that to make choices that so far have proved to be helpful.
Perhaps try and track your dreams for a few weeks, and do some amplification work around them. I can give you some hints on how to do that if you like. You might find it very helpful.
Posted by violette on August 3, 2010, at 15:08:23
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » vwoolf, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 13:24:53
Hmmm. I used to do that magical thinking, less now, but my 'fate' thoughts only related to seeing positive outcomes. My T and I laugh because he thinks everything is chance and I joke about fate..rather than take it seriously...but I am familar with this concept...
Could you use your magical thinking traits to come up with positive outcomes?
> I think I can say that I've started being as late for therapy as I am for everything else in my life. I was always on time before. And while I used to want to call for extra sessions, now I'm more likely to consider that there are other things I maybe ought to be doing in the mornings twice a week.
I tend to agree with VWoof about unconscious reasons. When I felt like not going to therapy a couple times, I realized it was because of fear of the growing attachment.
> I still occasionally want to call my therapist between sessions, but more and more I'm handling things on my own.
Could it mean that you have some fears of not needing him? I think attachment is one of the most ambivalent feelings for many people, as this seems to be discussed alot among therapy patients-fear of dependence, fear of independence, fear of being too attached..fear of being unattached...fear of even being attached.
> I'm scared about what that might mean. And I'm sort of afraid to even mention it.
It might mean you are afraid of a loss of the attachment if you are improving to the point where you no longer 'need' him? And that if you do improve to a point, that the potential loss scares you-and if you bring up those feelings to him, you and he will end up discussing that you are starting to feel you may not be needing him as much as before? And he might confirm this by wanting to explore termination thoughts?
Well now after I wrote that, I couldn't think of many ways to turn the magical thinking to determine potential positive outcomes. Except that it could result in your confrontation of your fears...which isn't really a 'fate thing'...either way, I'd accept the fate thoughts and that might make them easier to deal with and eventually come to terms with them.
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 15:23:25
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something, posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 14:28:28
I'm sure I dream. Everyone does. But it's rare that I remember those dreams. My sleep cycle isn't what it ought to be. Nothing major, but dreams may be a casualty. I do occasionally have clumps of dreams that I remember. Not recently that I recall.
I've never been very good at expressing myself through art either. My therapist keeps remembering one thing I did early in therapy, but I keep telling him that wasn't art at all. It was a very detail and intellectual chart in crayons. :)
I think I know what it all means. I am just afraid to acknowledge it.
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 15:39:21
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » Dinah, posted by violette on August 3, 2010, at 15:08:23
I know it's magical thinking. That's why my therapist says it's schizotypal of me.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050813/msgs/544714.html
Check out the date. I'm sure it's not engraved in the minds of others, but Katrina was 8/29/05.
The trouble with my belief in the fates is that it keeps getting reinforced...
Posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 15:39:25
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » vwoolf, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 15:23:25
Yes, I know that feeling. But things are sometimes not quite as cut and dried as you might think. There may be other alternatives, apart from just clinging or terminating, and from what I understand, neither of these feel very happy for you right now.
Sometimes, by allowing yourself to hold and express both positions, something else might arise that you hadn't expected.
Posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 15:44:53
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something, posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 15:39:25
You're right. And termination isn't really in my mind at all. Therapy clients like me never need to terminate. Just space out appointments. :)
But even that has scary overtones to me.
To cover my rear, I'll say that I would be devastated if I were unable to see my therapist, or was forced to see him less frequently, because of something happening to him, to me or my family, or to the city, state, country or earth. That should cover it.
Posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 16:19:00
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » vwoolf, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 15:23:25
The thing about the unconscious is that it is precisely that - unconscious. Hidden and shadowy in other words. You may think you know what it means, but that is usually very reductive knowing. It can be strangely exciting and surprising to explore other layers of consciousness.
If you don't have access to dreams or art, there are a few quite revealing word games that can provide some insight. I'll see if I can remember one that I found useful.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2010, at 8:25:35
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something, posted by vwoolf on August 3, 2010, at 16:19:00
Oddly enough I remember a snippet of a dream from the night before last. I was about to call my therapist to say that I needed to see him immediately. Did he have any open times today? There was a real feeling of urgency to it.
I imagine my subconscious was chiming in with its opinion. It is rarely subtle.
Or maybe it was just because Tuesday's session was really bad. I think maybe that my therapist is like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When he's good, he's very very good. But when he's bad, he's horrid.
I don't think that's just my flawed perceptions either. Though I admit they may play a role.
He started the session by bringing me back as he texted. When I sat down, he said he wanted to finish this, and did. He started to talk to me as he sent the text, but I politely didn't respond until he finished and put down the phone. I didn't want to interrupt his texting. (grin)
I wondered why he hadn't just finished texting before he brought me back, but at session end I discovered that he considered the time to start when he brought me back, not when he was ready to start.
It set the tone for the whole session. And I don't think that's because of my perceptions. Texting in session is bad form for a therapist, I think, particularly if he wants to charge for it. And he was off the rest of the session too.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2010, at 19:57:16
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » vwoolf, posted by Dinah on August 3, 2010, at 13:24:53
Just sharing my gut reaction, it sounds a lot like when I was heading towards termination with my T. It just got to a point when I was doing reasonably well, at least that I was doing as much on my own as I was in sessions. It seems. And so far, so good.
Of course that's just what it reminds me of. And even though I was ready to terminate, it was still really tough and painful. But still, so far, so good.
Just my immediate, gut reaction.
And though I can really understand your worry about fates and all...Katrina was much bigger than one wonderful woman. Just saying.
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2010, at 20:09:16
In reply to Re: I want to talk about something » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on August 6, 2010, at 19:57:16
> Just sharing my gut reaction, it sounds a lot like when I was heading towards termination with my T. It just got to a point when I was doing reasonably well, at least that I was doing as much on my own as I was in sessions. It seems. And so far, so good.
>
> Of course that's just what it reminds me of. And even though I was ready to terminate, it was still really tough and painful. But still, so far, so good.Yeah, the thought has occurred to me. Though I know I still get caught up in my head way too much.
> And though I can really understand your worry about fates and all...Katrina was much bigger than one wonderful woman. Just saying.I know. I think that's one reason why scrupulosity used to be considered a sin. Of course all that damage wouldn't have occurred because I said what I did.
I think it all started when I was little and was angry that my parents wouldn't let me get a collie because we already had a dog. I wanted a collie! Then the dog we had died, which of course I did not want. It was like the traditional genie's wish. I got the collie, but lost my dog.
Since then, I probably remember those times when that did happen, and don't remember the times the fates don't punish me. I've even got a whole set of rules set up in my mind. For example, naturally I tried to use the fates for my own benefit. But they don't act if I really mean what I say. Taking back my words helps. So does qualifying them.
Silly I know. But it seems a small price to pay to not have that guilt.
This is the end of the thread.
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