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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
I'm sure this has been discussed before in some fashion.
I have recently been sharing the fact that I post to this board with my T. I haven't shared any content, specifics, or the name of the board, etc. but just that I participate. I have told her how helpful it is to be supported and not feel so alone. I have told her how totally wonderful it can be if I feel like I actually help someone else - especially if they are struggling with something similar to me. She was, as always, supportive and nonjudgmental.
However, or more accurately, "and" she had some interesting things to say about the "magic", intimacy, sacredness of the therapeutic relationship and wondered whether posting here "diffused" some of this. What do you all think about that? Have you heard about that from your Ts before?
I have certainly experienced the feeling of trying to explain my relationship with my T to someone and them totally not getting it. It seems to just add to the pile of times I have not been seen. On this board that can happen, but maybe I figure statistically it's less likely. Not so much because we all can relate or understand each other, but just because we have the consciousness to know we don't and yet we can listen, support, etc. I guess I'm mostly drawn here when I'm struggling with my attachment issues with my T and want to hear that others do too.
I think she would gently suggest (not that posting here is at all wrong) that the best thing for my work would be to take my struggle to her. Of course. I think we all tend to encourage each other to do this.
So, what about this idea of "diffusing?" What do you think?
Cheers,
FMD
Posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 20:58:37
In reply to Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
Well, I've never told mine about posting here. But I've heard that point from several others' therapists, and, when I've seen other therapists, they've been very concerned not to interfere (if that's the right word) with what is going on between my therapist and I. One consulting therapist told me once, "The two of you are in the middle of a process that should NOT be interrupted," and, when I saw a covering therapist when mine was on leave, he didn't want to talk much about her because he said he wanted to "honor" what was going on with us.
I have found Babble invaluable, and if it "diffuses" some of the intensity--well, I don't think I could take it if it were any *more* intense, so that's fine!
I think it's an individual decision. If you feel posting here damages your therapy relationship in some way, then that's valid. I think it's possible. But it's also possible that it can do the opposite--I think it's done so for me. Reading others' struggles, posting here, etc., has made my own struggles deeper and more thought-provoking.
It's a wonderful concept to take your struggles to your therapist, and in an ideal world, that would be enough. But the reality for me is that sometimes I need to talk more than 100 minutes a week about it, and sometimes I need to talk to people who are in clients' shoes.
I think it's up to you.
Posted by Daisym on April 20, 2009, at 23:51:56
In reply to Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?init=/babble/psycho/20051018/msgs/570043.htm
This was a long but great discussion we had a long time ago.
Posted by 10derHeart on April 21, 2009, at 0:10:52
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by Daisym on April 20, 2009, at 23:51:56
If that link doesn't work, as it didn't for me, just add an "l" to the "htm_" - it seems to have been cut off :-)
That WAS a great discussion.
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 7:28:51
In reply to Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
I often tell my therapist that the thing I feel best about in Babble is that we encourage people to take things to their therapist.
I know I wasn't honest with mine about some of the feelings I thought were shameful. And I think a lot of people felt the way I did. I came up with all sorts of reasons I did what I did, when the truth was that I felt attachment to my therapist and wanted him to feel attached too.
It all depends on what Babble is to an individual I think. If Babble helps to contain feelings between sessions, I know my therapist would approve of that. If Babble encourages me to be open with him, I am positive my therapist would approve of that.
If I work things out here before bringing them to my therapist... Well, my therapist likes that too. Some might not. A lot of times bringing up something here before I bring it to therapy helps me sort out in my mind what my real issue is. Which oddly enough I don't always know. But in mentioning something then looking at my replies to responses, I can generally see a theme. And of course Babblers often can see things I don't, or have other ways of looking at my issue.
My therapist likes that. A therapist who likes to make interpretations or who has great insight might not like that as much. It's not my therapist's forte.
I've never found it to take away the magic. Never. Growth takes the magic away some. But talking about therapy with others who understand never has.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on April 21, 2009, at 10:36:14
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » FindingMyDesire, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 7:28:51
From my perspective, they are 2 different/separate things. I have shared some of the postings on Babble; he really enjoyed them.....
For me, NOTHING takes away from the "magic" intimacy, etc. of therapy.
Talking about it is different.....then being In it.
Sassy
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:33:51
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by Daisym on April 20, 2009, at 23:51:56
Hi Daisym,
Thanks so much for the link. I have a lot to read there!;-)
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:40:43
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy » FindingMyDesire, posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 20:58:37
> I have found Babble invaluable, and if it "diffuses" some of the intensity--well, I don't think I could take it if it were any *more* intense, so that's fine!
>I like this. I definitely need to diffuse some of the intensity sometimes too! Phew!
> I think it's an individual decision. If you feel posting here damages your therapy relationship in some way, then that's valid. I think it's possible. But it's also possible that it can do the opposite--I think it's done so for me. Reading others' struggles, posting here, etc., has made my own struggles deeper and more thought-provoking.
>I certainly have never felt like posting here is damaging to my therapy relationship. I have always found it so very helpful. I just wonder about whether it does affect how the relationship is "held" with my T. I don't have an answer or even a take on it. It's so helpful to hear people's ideas on this.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:48:23
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » FindingMyDesire, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 7:28:51
> It all depends on what Babble is to an individual I think. If Babble helps to contain feelings between sessions, I know my therapist would approve of that. If Babble encourages me to be open with him, I am positive my therapist would approve of that.
>I get the "containing" part for sure. Sometimes I am just trying to hold on to her and not start rejecting her in my head! Writing about it here helps so much.
> If I work things out here before bringing them to my therapist... Well, my therapist likes that too. Some might not. A lot of times bringing up something here before I bring it to therapy helps me sort out in my mind what my real issue is. Which oddly enough I don't always know. But in mentioning something then looking at my replies to responses, I can generally see a theme. And of course Babblers often can see things I don't, or have other ways of looking at my issue.
>
> My therapist likes that. A therapist who likes to make interpretations or who has great insight might not like that as much. It's not my therapist's forte.
>It's funny. I don't think of my T as someone who makes a lot of interpretations. She definitely lets me drive. But I guess I do think she is the type to prefer me to wait to work things out with her and in front of her. Maybe it relates to my particular work (read: issues). HAHA! Which is true when I think about it. It's so, so hard to face her with my feelings. So I can get where it's probably good to face her with my feelings. Isn't therapy great for that? LOL. I'm thinking it's about keeping a balance - as most things. For me.
> I've never found it to take away the magic. Never. Growth takes the magic away some. But talking about therapy with others who understand never has.
>What?!?! Growth takes away the magic? I got to stop with the growing then. :-)
Thanks so much for your post.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:49:59
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:48:23
Posted by MollieQ on April 21, 2009, at 11:50:32
In reply to Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
This is an interesting thread. I read the older one too, which was also interesting.
I can see at least two concerns T's might have. The first is concern about what we might be taking from the internet, e.g. bad advice or information that may harm us or sidetrack/hijack our therapy. This is probably at least partly due to unfamiliarity with the site. I find Babble threads to be somewhat self-regulating since the posters are more thoughtful on Babble than I've seen on most sites. So fallacies, bad advice etc tend to be noticed and explored in discussion. But as always, cavaet emptor and we have to police ourselves as to what we take in. But that is true of any influence, including friends, books, courses and so on.
The second concern would be mostly for the psychonalytic therapies, in which the relationship lives and breathes within a "cocoon" of mutual privacy. The work of therapy takes place within this cocoon. (Pushing the metaphor, then when the work is all done, the cocoon will open up and out we will spring with our butterfly wings!) In this context I can understand the concern about possibly diluting the transference.
However, there are many ways in which Babble supports and enriches our therapy experiences, especially since the stock advice is "talk to your T about it." It provides support when no other support is available. It normalizes our feelings and experiences. How about a raise of hands for those here who felt relieved by how many of us go through intense feelings of love for our T's? It would be counter-productive if those feelings are only processed here but usually this is no secret to the therapy. And in many cases, Babble has helped prep people to raise this and other difficult topics in therapy.
There have also been many times, for me, when something someone's said or that I've myself written, makes me suddenly aware of an issue I hadn't known about. For instance, I wrote a somewhat flip response to the "pictures" thread above, something about T's needing their own transition objects. And after I'd written it, I suddenly became aware that I was angry at my own T for issues about something related to self-disclosure. But it didn't stop there because I also realized that I was being triggered by a number of events, bring a rather primal issue to the fore for discussion in our next meeting. I would not have been so observant if I did not have this context and responded to the thread.
And finally, talking about our T's and the relationship can actually enhance our feelings rather than dilute them. When anyone we are strongly attached to is away from us, doesn't it help to keep them close by talking about them, and your relationship with them, to others? In that sense, Babble itself serves as a "transition object" that helps us sustain our connectedness with our Ts and our therapy in between sessions.
So basically, Babble is like any other tool and a potentially powerful one at that. Whether it is used "for good or evil" depends upon how wisely it is used by the wielder.
FMD, thanks for bringing this topic up. Lots of useful food for thought.
Mollie
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:53:04
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » Dinah, posted by sassyfrancesca on April 21, 2009, at 10:36:14
*sigh*
I love therapy. Well, I guess I love my T. I love the intimacy of the room and the space and being with her in person. It *is* different than just talking about it.
Of course, being "in it" and talking about it is the best/hardest. That can just be so intense...
How long until my next appointment? :-)
FindingMyDesire
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2009, at 13:04:04
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » sassyfrancesca, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 11:53:04
Well no therapist and now no pdoc so guess better listen well to you guys. Love Phillipa
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 14:05:36
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2009, at 13:04:04
Posted by Phillipa on April 21, 2009, at 20:11:48
In reply to (((((((((((Phillipa)))))))))) (nm), posted by FindingMyDesire on April 21, 2009, at 14:05:36
That was so sweet thanks Phillipa
Posted by FindingMyDesire on April 22, 2009, at 11:28:04
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » FindingMyDesire, posted by MollieQ on April 21, 2009, at 11:50:32
> The second concern would be mostly for the psychonalytic therapies, in which the relationship lives and breathes within a "cocoon" of mutual privacy. The work of therapy takes place within this cocoon. (Pushing the metaphor, then when the work is all done, the cocoon will open up and out we will spring with our butterfly wings!) In this context I can understand the concern about possibly diluting the transference.
>I love this idea of the cocoon and butterfly! And the words "mutual privacy" really resonated with me.
> However, there are many ways in which Babble supports and enriches our therapy experiences, especially since the stock advice is "talk to your T about it." It provides support when no other support is available. It normalizes our feelings and experiences. How about a raise of hands for those here who felt relieved by how many of us go through intense feelings of love for our T's? It would be counter-productive if those feelings are only processed here but usually this is no secret to the therapy. And in many cases, Babble has helped prep people to raise this and other difficult topics in therapy.
>Yes, I absolutely agree with this! And it helps me articulate it better to her I think.
> There have also been many times, for me, when something someone's said or that I've myself written, makes me suddenly aware of an issue I hadn't known about. For instance, I wrote a somewhat flip response to the "pictures" thread above, something about T's needing their own transition objects. And after I'd written it, I suddenly became aware that I was angry at my own T for issues about something related to self-disclosure. But it didn't stop there because I also realized that I was being triggered by a number of events, bring a rather primal issue to the fore for discussion in our next meeting. I would not have been so observant if I did not have this context and responded to the thread.
>For me I have often used Babble to "test the waters" of an idea. I almost see what it feels like to say something out loud to someone else in the safe, online space that Babble provides. There have definitely been times when I would not have brought something up in therapy if I had not done it here first.
> FMD, thanks for bringing this topic up. Lots of useful food for thought.
>
> MollieI tend to come here on and off so I don't think we have "met" before. Anyway, thanks so much for your thoughtful post.
Cheers,
FMD
Posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2009, at 16:39:14
In reply to Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy?, posted by FindingMyDesire on April 20, 2009, at 20:41:54
Well, I will admit that when things are going well in therapy, I tend to keep it very close to me and not post a lot about it on Babble.
However, when things are going badly, or I feel badly, then I post a lot, largely to dilute the pain and confirm that I am not alone in it.
I can't tell you what a haven babble was for me when I was experiencing intense transference and longing for my therapist. I thought I was a freak. But then babble showed me that I am very very much not alone.
I think some therapists have a problem with babble any number of reasons. They don't want to look like a bad guy, some eschew the internet altogether because of the host of misinformation there. Some therapists probably actually believe that babble does intrude on the therapeutic space, thus shifting the treatment from coming soley from the therapist, but also from other opinions in the room.
My personal philosophy is that my therapist is the coach of, and not the boss of my recovery. It is right and proper that I use any means at my disposal in the pursuit of wholeness. Even it that means talking about my therapy to others.
Just my two cents.
Take care
Seldom.
Posted by sunnydays on April 22, 2009, at 17:50:13
In reply to Re: Does posting here take away 'magic' of therapy? » FindingMyDesire, posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2009, at 16:39:14
I too find that I tend to keep the good stuff more to myself. It feels like it 'wrecks' it in some way to share it - I prefer to keep it special to myself - a special thing that only I and T have been witness to. But I also definitely come here more when I am struggling - the support here is great. I would never have told my T I loved him if I hadn't talked about it here first... and that turned out to be a huge step in my therapy.
sunnydays
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