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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
A friend and I were talking about whether there's a connection between being highly intelligent and having more emotional troubles. We're both pretty smart (and modest, obviously! ;) and we've both had terrible depression issues.
I notice that on babble, everyone seems highly intelligent--in fact, a lot of you have or are working on advanced degrees--and you all write beautifully.
I'm reminded of Hamlet--a really smart guy who had terrible problems partly because he analyzed too much rather than taking action. I joke with my students that they'd only have to read a one-act play rather than a bloated five-act tragedy if Hamlet wasn't such a good critical thinker who analyzed every aspect of a situation and thought about it in philosophical terms.
Or maybe having emotional troubles leads to better thinking skills just because we're driven to understand our agony? Or maybe therapy itself makes us more intellectual?
Anyway, thoughts?
Posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:06:25
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
I forgot to add, this is also related to something my therapist has said to me several times--that my intellect isn't good for my emotional issues.
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 4, 2009, at 17:23:02
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence » raisinb, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:06:25
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a link. Just look at the great philosophers - what a happy bunch they were!
I think one of my problems is, like you mentioned, over analysing. I rarely forget things and can play events/words/feelings through my head again and again.
That said, depression is an illness that can affect people with different intellects - including the severely mentally disabled. Also, a lot of those with profound cognitive difficulties have severe emotional problems too. So I think depression affects a wide spectrum of individuals. I wonder whether there have ever been studies comparing IQ and incidence of depression/psychiatric illness? In the descriptions of some of the PDs it is often listed that many 'sufferers' have above average intelligence (it's not a criteria for of course but just an observed pattern).
Witti
Posted by fleeting flutterby on February 4, 2009, at 17:26:49
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
---While I think intelligence may have something to do with being more susceptible to depression(or did the "upset" bring about a surge in the brain to make one more intelligent?)
I do think it's more on the lines of "Highly Sensitive" people. People that "feel" sadness more, trauma more etc... People that get upset over injustices instead of being like those that say--"well, that's just the way it is" and shrug it off. It seems people prone to depression ruminate over things more... kind of get stuck in their upsets... and some are more dependent on others to aid them in recovering from their upsets-- where those with less sensitivity pull themselves up and move on..... (I've met a few people that have went through horrific traumas and are living full and happy lives with degrees, have written books and taught in college-- they never struggled the the way some others would have)
Maybe there is something in some people's body chemistry that is made to re-act more profoundly to things, for those that get stuck in depression...... of which I don't think science has figured out a true answer to help everyone....
anyway-- that's my view of it.... for what it's worth......ha!-- half a penny! ;o)
flutterby-mandy
Posted by obsidian on February 4, 2009, at 23:58:59
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
I don't know...I don't feel smart, I mostly feel confused. Some people seem to think I am smart, and others reactions to me in school seemed to communicate that I somehow was one of the smarter ones. Who's to say?
I know that I figured a lot of stuff out on my own, essential kinds of things that maybe other people just knew. I think that my experiences put me at a major disadvantage, but my intelligence helped me make it through.
At some point, I remember figuring out that how I acted toward people would determine to a large degree how they reacted to me. I was angry and despairing and desperate and lost, but there it was....my burden to bear.
I imagined a person in my head for years that I talked to silently in my head. Essentially, I did not have thoughts, I had conversations in my head with a fantasy person. It was always a back and forth, in my head..i.e. this situation vs. that situation, this possibility vs. that possibility..ad finitum. It was like an imaginary therapist, someone who could listen to me, who I could check things out with.I'm not sure how to really explain this, but it helped me through. I have struggled with anxiety and depression/moodiness (whatever you want to call it) to a degree that has seriously affected my functioning, but I think I made it through a lot of it, by virtue of my "brain power" for lack of a better phrase.
oh, and sensitive over-analyzer...you betcha.
Posted by onceupon on February 5, 2009, at 9:14:06
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence » raisinb, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:06:25
Correlation/causation - it's probably hard to tease apart. But I can relate to feeling like my intellect isn't good for my emotional issues. I've always been pretty analytical, majored in a "hard" science in college, etc. And since my first severe depressive episode (also in college), I've been trying to figure out how to NOT intellectualize my emotions or my situation. How to separate my drive towards seeking out rational explanations for things that do not conform well to reason. How to feel my feelings, as it were.
Posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2009, at 12:51:28
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence, posted by onceupon on February 5, 2009, at 9:14:06
Wow for me you hit the nail on the head so to speak. I don't currently go to theraphy but I have been through it with pdocs that did the full 50minute sessions weekly and all said I intellectualize and don't feel and it's true. One of the reasons I don't cry. I've never been emotional in that sense. Now I know I am far less intelligent than the majority but stil did manage magna cum laude in nursing only diploma but hey it's something right. hence I find I'm not content to just be. I don't know how to do that. Any tricks? So many extremely intelligent people here. When you think a lot you internalize emotions and that in itself can cause either action or depression. That's my take. Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on February 5, 2009, at 22:48:47
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence, posted by obsidian on February 4, 2009, at 23:58:59
>Essentially, I did not have thoughts, I had conversations in my head with a fantasy person. It was always a back and forth, in my head..i.e. this situation vs. that situation, this possibility vs. that possibility..ad finitum.
Interesting.
Often that is what thoughts are, perhaps?
Part of a larger conversation?
Posted by Recently on February 6, 2009, at 11:07:33
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
I've thought about this topic before. Personally, I know that my over-analytic nature coupled with my sensitivity has not helped my depression. I think these traits of hyperanalysis and sensitivity are probably more prominent in intelligent people, but as others said, depression affects people across the spectrum of intelligence. It's an interesting topic - I've tried to look up some studies and the results seem mixed. One study even said people who are highly intelligent are better able to adapt, and less likely to be depressed. Hmmm.
Recently
Posted by Dinah on February 6, 2009, at 13:10:56
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
I wonder if it's just expressed differently. With not as much reflection, or perhaps as much awareness.
I always figure the same thing is probably true about my ancestors. They weren't as likely to go to the psychiatrist, or to think of themselves as being depressed. But probably no less likely to self medicate, act recklessly or violently, have somatic complaints etc.
Posted by Sigismund on February 6, 2009, at 17:31:38
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
Like this from Hamlet....
>And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.I remember reading of Goering addressing the German police early on, saying
'My resolution will not be sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought'.
Posted by Sigismund on February 6, 2009, at 17:33:14
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence » raisinb, posted by Recently on February 6, 2009, at 11:07:33
Rumination and over analysis might be more associated with depersonalisation?
Posted by raisinb on February 6, 2009, at 18:14:24
In reply to depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 4, 2009, at 16:02:47
I think you're all right that analysis can contribute or lengthen, but not necessarily cause, depression.
Dinah's comment about her ancestors made me think about mine--alcoholics and criminals and crazy people, all of them! Self-medication galore.
I suppose we're relatively lucky to live in a time when depression is a diagnosable illness with a treatment protocol. People after us might be luckier, though.
Posted by Sigismund on February 6, 2009, at 19:23:55
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 6, 2009, at 18:14:24
>I suppose we're relatively lucky to live in a time when depression is a diagnosable illness with a treatment protocol. People after us might be luckier, though.
I'd like to believe this.
Posted by DAisym on February 6, 2009, at 20:12:25
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence, posted by raisinb on February 6, 2009, at 18:14:24
I think foks who like to write and write fairly well probably choose this site. People who don't wouldn't think to look for support this way. Not to say we aren't all brilliant! :)
I think what someone said about the depression being expressed in a particular way or having the insight about it is likely true. But I also think there is a lot of pressure on folks who are "smart" or capable to achieve things - and therefore there may be more failures or perceived failures to be depressed over. And we are smart enough to see what we didn't get done.
Lots of tail chasing ensues.
Posted by onceupon on February 10, 2009, at 23:18:42
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence » onceupon, posted by Phillipa on February 5, 2009, at 12:51:28
Hi Phillipa,
I'm sorry to hear that you've struggled with this too. It's taken me years to feel more comfortable with crying in front of others, not to mention crying period. With my previous therapist, I don't think I cried at all. I honestly think that something (hormones? emotions?) related with having a child helped me to more readily access my emotions. At least in some cases. I have cried in front of my current therapist on a handful of occasions. Of course, there's still the crushing shame that goes along with that, so...
I agree completely with you that overthinking and internalizing emotion seem to go hand-in-hand. I noticed in a thread lower down that you're thinking about finding another therapist. It seems like you might benefit from finding someone who's a better fit, based on some of your previous posts. I wish you all the best with that.
> Wow for me you hit the nail on the head so to speak. I don't currently go to theraphy but I have been through it with pdocs that did the full 50minute sessions weekly and all said I intellectualize and don't feel and it's true. One of the reasons I don't cry. I've never been emotional in that sense. Now I know I am far less intelligent than the majority but stil did manage magna cum laude in nursing only diploma but hey it's something right. hence I find I'm not content to just be. I don't know how to do that. Any tricks? So many extremely intelligent people here. When you think a lot you internalize emotions and that in itself can cause either action or depression. That's my take. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2009, at 0:22:24
In reply to Re: depression and intelligence » Phillipa, posted by onceupon on February 10, 2009, at 23:18:42
Thanks I'm really torn about if I should try or shouldn't four here so far. And none like any of you guys. Not empathetic at all. Suggestions Love Phillipa
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