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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on September 19, 2008, at 15:32:44
I don't really know what to say. I thought most of my problems stemmed from my emotional depth and sensitivity. I won't deny there might be some truth in it - sometimes I feel numb, as if I don't really care any more, but I'm beginning to think she's bringing some of her own issues into the room. She did say "Maybe I've misread you here, but I thought you felt only shallow, superficial emotions and that was your barrier to connecting with people". I might have given her the impression that I don't care about myself or other people and I think she's got a little too carried away with this. As she said "Maybe this is a defence?". I think it is, but there was something in her tone that suggested she didn't really believe it. She also said I had a good poker face.
Last week I had an appointment with my pdoc and he told me she had phoned him wanting to give him some information before he saw me. Unfortunately she was away when pdoc rang back so he didn't get to find out what it was. He's an open, honest and genuinely compassionate man, so he told me about this, wondering if I knew what was going on. I had an appointment with T today and she said nothing, so I can't imagine what might have been so urgent. I suppose I'll find out at the next appointment with pdoc. I'm not sure how many sessions I have left, but since I'm making progress she is probably willing to extend therapy for as long as I need it.
It's interesting to find out how my self perception differs from how other people see me. T says I seem perfectly calm in sessions, but I think she might just be trying to reassure me. I don't think anyone who knows me socially would say I come accross as a calm person. I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand there's the thought that I might not be so bad afterall, but on the other I think I might just have learned to put up a front in a professional setting, and this is all she's seeing.
Q
Posted by rskontos on September 19, 2008, at 16:59:56
In reply to T thinks I might be shallow, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2008, at 15:32:44
Qunital,
I feel numb most of the time, it is part of my dissociative disorder, I told my t, who is also my p-doc, that I don't think I will ever like people and if the goal of therapy is to get me to like them then we are wasting our time. I don't think people are likeable. I told him I watched Rambo IV and connected with the character in that he had power, did not like people and could care less plus he could kick butt when he needed to. He did not tell me I was shallow he said I can see why you relate to this character. And this all lead to a great discussion of me, and my therapy with him. Not always very comfortable but a good and necessary evil I suppose. What I am getting at, I think your T should not say you are shallow. That is mean to me. Given what might have happened to you in your life you might have a reason not to like people. I sure do. And some people are loners. My husband is. He comes across like you described but he likes people enough just prefers his own company.
And what if it is defense. What is wrong with that. I just wonder how much experience does your T has. A person can only allow themselves to feel shallow superficial emotions because they don't want to be hurt. I get that. I think her labels of you are counterproductive. She should let you talk about why you feel like you do and work on ways to try and get over that.
For some reason I am not liking your T for you. She seems to not have your best interest at heart. I hope I am wrong.
Do you think she just might not get you? Be a bad fit?
Take care my friend
rsk
Posted by Nadezda on September 19, 2008, at 19:00:26
In reply to T thinks I might be shallow, posted by Quintal on September 19, 2008, at 15:32:44
Is it possible your T doesn't have the most sensitive command of language? I'm not sure what she means, to be honest. Maybe she just meant that you don't let people get to you or you don't open yourself up to certain types of relationships. Maybe she meant that your anxieties about yourself prevent you from responding to others more deeply or on their terms-- or seeing them clearly.
However, it would be odd IMO for a T to tell you your a shallow person. It's one thing to have a poker face-- and another to be superficial and not have emotional depth.
If it bothers you I would pursue it in more detail, because it strikes me as a clumsy way of saying something-- although what, isn't quite clear.
Nadezda
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 11:14:01
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow » Quintal, posted by rskontos on September 19, 2008, at 16:59:56
Hi rsk,
She's said before that can't see who I am or what I'm like as a person. She is a Phd so she should know what she's talking about. I think we like to believe Ts earn telepathic abilities along with their qualifications, but they're people like everyone else. I'm sure there are people who can understand me, but they're people who have had similar experiences, and she - as a person, hasn't. I'm not too bothered if she thinks I'm shallow. I would be pretty impressed if it were true - my life would be so much easier that way! But this is only the latest in a long line of theories she's had about me. It's like she's trying to nail down some fatal flaw or weakness that would give her more control over me. It doesn't feel like she's really trying to help me. It's hard not to feel insulted by most of the things she comes out with. She does give a bit of reassurance here and there, but it feels more like manipulation than anything else, and it's almost undone by all of the other things she says.
I just want a person there in the room willing to talk about things, and I had that with another T. I think a lot of people in long-term therapy use their Ts are sort of 'safe' friends, and even lovers. You just don't get that on the NHS. I think it might be a bad fit, but not only that - it's the approach and underlying intent that matters to me.
Q
Posted by raisinb on September 20, 2008, at 11:46:48
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow » rskontos, posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 11:14:01
Hi Quintal--
Your therapist's response reminded me of mine. She's never said anything of the kind--in fact, the opposite--but the type of comment resonated with me. I'm not sure this will be helpful because it might come out of my own musings about my relationship with her, but it sounds as if she feels like you are not opening up to her and as if she doesn't "get" you, and is frustrated by this. Her comment comes from this place. She is trying to make that lack of connection a pathology/defense of yours, so that she doesn't have to face the fact that she may be failing at this connection. Or maybe not even the fact that she is to blame--that either of you is, really--but that it is just not happening.I too am "calm" and defended in most of my sessions. My therapist comments on my emotional control with frustration. Somehow I hear her confusion at how others (the imaginary other clients in my head always act a certain way, different from me) lose it, cry, scream, break down, and I sit there perfectly calm, even though she knows I have extremely intense reactions (cause I tell her about them) outside of therapy. She's said she feels like there's a "real" or "second" therapy that goes on after we end sessions. This is true.
I think some of us just don't process or react immediately. We process on our own, mull, meditate, then respond directly. This is not a pathology--it's a timing issue. Or maybe a relationship issue, since I've certainly learned to respond immediately to others. Maybe this is the case for you?
Anyway, this is rambling, but I think your therapist is having some issues of her own, related to your relationship, and she needs to back off and process them herself for awhile.
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 12:00:14
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow, posted by Nadezda on September 19, 2008, at 19:00:26
I think the problem is that we're natural enemies. If I passed her in the street I'd have her down as someone to be wary of. There's cruelty in her face. She isn't a very friendly person at heart and neither am I. We both have to try hard to maintain this veneer of unconditional positive regard, and quite often we fail. I think it's easier for her with patients who are naturally more affable. She admitted to being shy and uncomfortable around people herself, and as a result she's drawn to "fill the room" types of personalities because they cover up her deficits.
She used the words 'shallow, superifical emotions'. I can't remember the exact sequence of words that preceeded it, but those were the ones that stood out. Yes, it is odd for a T to use those words. It sounded to me as if she was reading it off from a list somewhere in her head. I know I never used them myself, but I think they are listed as being core critrea in the diagnostic category I've been half-heartedly steering her towards. I would meet more of the diagnostic criteria than her - mainly because I've been less successful in life, but I think the problem is that we share the same underlying temperement. I don't believe that diagnostic criteria can fully encapsulate what it is to be a person. We can usually just tell by instinct. I think this is why she can't see anything in me - she's looking at the worst parts of herself.
Q
Posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 13:38:13
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow » Quintal, posted by raisinb on September 20, 2008, at 11:46:48
I think you're spot on. I find it hard to open up to other people. I curl up like a hedgehog and all they see is my prickly defenses. I don't think she knows I have a soft center. That's actually something I'd want to keep from her until I know she's trustworthy. I think what I've been doing is testing her, checking to make sure she's safe to open up to.
It's interesting you mention about emotional control. I do experience intesnse emotions, but I seem to have complete control of how they influence my behaviour, and it seems to confuse people. Apprently I show no emotion. At least if I don't have anything positive to show, I don't show anything. Years ago a psychiatric nurse complained (alomst pleaded with me) "You don't respond, you don't smile, you don't laugh, you don't say anything". This week another T-like person who comes out to see me told me I'm the most 'in control' person she sees. I'm proud of being able to control myself most of the time, but when it comes to initmacy it's a barrier.
I like your Ts idea of a second therapy going on after the session. This is what happens with me too. I don't think I make much progress in session (and this can't be very satisfying for her), but I do listen to everything she says - but more like taking notes as if I was in the audience at a lecture than a participant in therapy. It's only once I'm out of the room and I begin the 'post mortem' that therapy begins. I definately have problems responding in real time. I don't deal with being put on the spot very well, but you give me hope that things can change.
Q
Posted by JoniS on September 20, 2008, at 22:45:57
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow, posted by Nadezda on September 19, 2008, at 19:00:26
Dear Quintal,
I must say I agree with what Nadezda posted. How strange for a T to "treat" a patient. I hope you get a better T, that one sounds like she is in the wrong career.
Joni
Posted by antigua3 on September 22, 2008, at 12:43:57
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow » Nadezda, posted by Quintal on September 20, 2008, at 12:00:14
Hi Qunital,
I don't think I've ever responded to you before so I hope you don't mind.You said, "She used the words 'shallow, superifical emotions'."
so did she say your emotions were shallow and superficial or that you were? I can relate to her describing your emotions that way, but not if she used them to describe you.
I only show "shallow, superifical emotions" to people I don't trust. Maybe you don't trust her enough yet to show her your deeper self? If the two of you are so much alike, is it a battle of some sorts? Are you still testing her?
I know I certainly still test my pdoc because I'm not sure how much I can trust him. When I let the battle go, we get along much better.
I may be way off base, and if I am excuse me, but I see a huge difference between her describing your emotions as such vs. describing you as such.
As I said, I could be all wrong here.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by Quintal on September 24, 2008, at 11:27:33
In reply to Re: T thinks I might be shallow, posted by antigua3 on September 22, 2008, at 12:43:57
I think she was referring to my emotions. You're right about there being a battle, and most of it is on part. There are times when I just want someone to listen though, I don't want to be forced into finding an immediate logical solution to every problem - but the type of therapy she uses and the time constraints that are on us mean that she does push me (quite mercillessly) towards meeting targets. I'm not someone that responds well to that kind of treatment and that's where we keep running into conflict. I think I got the results I was looking for as far as testing is concerned.
Q
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