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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 23:23:47
In reply to Re: holy crap! » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 23:09:05
I know I mentioned his body parts in those two dreams. But the first one was assuring myself that he wasn't a sexual being, even though he was getting married. And the second one had nothing at all to do with sex. It was my subconscious's way of bringing to my attention that he wasn't really being very effective (was impotent) at that point in time, and that I cared about him and was taking care of him. Which was an important thing to discuss, and fortunately he pulled himself shortly after that. But we both knew it had nothing really to do with sex.
Posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 23:26:35
In reply to Re: holy crap! » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 23:09:05
If I could do it, I'm sure you could too! The thing that was, and still is, SO astounding to me is that I would find myself in the office of such a highly-thought of psychoanalyst, and, before I know it, he's talking about his PENIS! Really, just what did he think he was doing??
But, underneath my panic and fear, I knew he was doing it to find a way to help me with my sexual anxieties. Never for a moment did I think he was doing it to gratify himself at my expense. I think that was because, as all these things were occurring, he was really holding me, and my well-being, paramount in his mind at every moment. I really knew that, so I could venture taking some risks...with him.
Well, just a breathtaking experience...
Posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 23:43:59
In reply to Re: holy crap! » Dinah, posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 23:26:35
No, I really couldn't.
You have a far greater ability to trust than I do, I think. I say I trust my therapist. And I do. But if he did something that unexpected, my trust would fly out the window like a startled sparrow. I apparently have very conditional trust.
But we're all different and what's helpful for me would not necessarily be helpful for you. So we're lucky to have our respective therapists.
Posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 23:44:47
In reply to Re: holy crap!, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 23:23:47
This is not in any way meant as a criticism, but rather as an observation which may well not be on point. From what you've said in response to my "penis sessions", I keep thinking that perhaps both you and your therapist may be colluding to make sure that nothing similiar happens between you. I think you are right- that having known one another for so long and as well as you have- sexual thoughts or desires become more problematical.
One of the things about what is going on between me and my analyst is that there is NOT overwhelming sexual desire on the part of either one of us. It's just one of the things that happens from time to time- one among the many thoughts and desires I have about him- and that he has about me. I don't learn very much about his thoughts or desires unless he thinks there is something that will be helpful to me. But to go back to what you said- would it be helpful if desire were included in the relationship when and if it occurs? It seems to me that it would- once one has a steady look at it, it takes its place with all the other things we experience.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 0:02:15
In reply to Re: holy crap! » Dinah, posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 23:44:47
No, it really wouldn't be helpful for us.
My mother did not have healthy boundaries, sexually. She disclosed things that I really had no business knowing. And although it wasn't abuse, it did leave me with significant issues.
For you, discussing sexuality might be good for your sexual anxiety. But for me, it would not be good.
I have no desire for him. I know desire, and if I felt it for him I wouldn't be seeing him as a therapist. He has no desire for me. I'm ugly and fat, and thank god for that.
Posted by Sigismund on April 27, 2008, at 1:40:04
In reply to holy crap! » twinleaf, posted by raisinb on April 26, 2008, at 22:21:45
I admire the composure too!!!!
Posted by seldomseen on April 27, 2008, at 8:55:42
In reply to Is there anything you don't say to your therapist?, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 16:00:57
There isn't much that I don't tell my therapist.
He tries really hard to be totally neutral in his dress, his mannerisms, and his general demeanor during our sessions.
Every now and then his face will scrunch up or he will throw his head back and I ask him to tell me what he his thinking. He pulls his socks up when something piques his interest, although I called him on that a long time ago. He doesn't do it as much now.
He also stammers sometimes which just drives me craaaazy, but I've never mentioned that to him. I feel like just yelling "just spit it out". He is especially bad about this on the phone.
As far as the big things, I am completely honest. I think he really can't help me very much unless I let him know what going on in my head. So I try to do that to the best of my ability. Sometimes I just don't have the words though.
Seldom.
Posted by seldomseen on April 27, 2008, at 9:22:31
In reply to it's the little things..., posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 18:06:48
I certainly can see the therapeutic benefit in discussing your analyst's erection.
I truly admire both of your abilities to face this head on -pardon the pun :).
There have been times, looking back on it, when I think my therapist has had an erection during our sessions as well. A quick attempt to open my file and put it on his lap, the crossing of the legs, turning slightly away from me - I think have all been tell-tale signs.
My therapist and I have dealt with erotic countertranference directly. He admitted that he would very much enjoy having sex with me. How I reacted to that statement is still driving our therapy to this day.
However, I suppressed my feelings about that for about a year, but we finally got around to it again.
I had to be at a particular place in therapy before I could tolerate that discussion without just losing it.
I think your analyst is exactly right in that his erection could be terrifying or it could be wonderful.
I've learned that desire doesn't have to spoil or ruin anything. It can exist in the room. Examining that desire, and the feelings around it can truly open doors and help us understand ourselves and our issues better.
The key is being totally confident that no one is going to act on that desire within the therapy. It has to be a safe place for it to be explored.
Thank you for sharing this experience, it certainly has given me the opportunity to think about the relationship I have with my T, and the safety I feel with him now.
Seldom
Posted by Annierose on April 27, 2008, at 11:08:50
In reply to Re: it's the little things... » twinleaf, posted by seldomseen on April 27, 2008, at 9:22:31
is there are times that I am more than thankful that I see a female therapist. Loving her can be explored without that sexual component ... which I have told her would be difficult.
However I have told her a fantasy that involved going to a friend's dinner party and unbeknownst to me and my therapist, we were both friends of the host. I found myself flirting with her husband and loving his attention towards me. That took courage along the same lines.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:09:52
In reply to Re: all I have to say ..., posted by Annierose on April 27, 2008, at 11:08:50
A bit of competitiveness? I'm sure that was hard. I find anything that involves their real life difficult. Did she react well? I'm not sure if my therapist reacts well to mentions of his real life...
I can see mine only because I've firmly convinced myself that he's gender neutral. All day today I've been wanting to call him and tell him firmly that he has no penis. Seriously. It's been hard to stop myself.
I feel far more comfortable with men than women in general. I think I fear negative judgment from women. But I wouldn't want to get emotionally close to any man that I thought had a penis. (except my husband of course)
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:13:54
In reply to Re: Is there anything you don't say to your therapist? » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on April 27, 2008, at 8:55:42
My therapist helps me find my words a lot. But not actually by supplying them. Hmmm....
I've always tried to be honest about the big stuff too. But sometimes it's hard for me to judge when I'm being really really honest. Honest isn't always static, you know? Honest about actions is, of course. But honest about thoughts and feelings is hard because it's a moving target. I figure I'm most honest when I lose my words.
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:44:33
In reply to Re: all I have to say ... » Annierose, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:09:52
I really am not. I think they're much less scary than woman parts.
But my therapist is my therapist/mommy. Parents' parts are not something you want to know about. Or anything you should know about.
Plus, I am vulnerable with my therapist. How could I be vulnerable around him if I thought he had grownup parts?
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 16:47:25
In reply to I'm not scared of them, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:44:33
I realized I can rely on my thirteen years of knowing him. If he hasn't given me any reason to think he isn't a Ken doll in thirteen years, he's not going to ever.
Whew.
Posted by muffled on April 27, 2008, at 17:50:32
In reply to I'm not scared of them, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 14:44:33
I am.
Posted by muffled on April 27, 2008, at 17:53:47
In reply to Re: I'm not scared of them, posted by muffled on April 27, 2008, at 17:50:32
if I had a man T, and he got a woody, and it was noticable, then I would NOT go back.
EVER.
M
Posted by raisinb on April 27, 2008, at 18:16:39
In reply to Re: all I have to say ..., posted by Annierose on April 27, 2008, at 11:08:50
After reading this thread--I'm glad mine's a woman, too!!
Though expressing sexual feelings towards a married female therapist was quite a harrowing experience, as well :)
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 18:59:16
In reply to AND, posted by muffled on April 27, 2008, at 17:53:47
yeah...
Maybe me too. I'm not afraid in theory. In practice it might be scary.
But then I probably wouldn't notice unless someone made an effort to be noticeable. And if someone made an effort to bring it to my attention, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing for me to be scared?
I just don't think in those terms. I can't imagine any reason I'd ever notice with anyone. Except my husband of course. The only other time I remember was the pervert at the library.
I remember once we were talking about sexual stuff in a completely appropriate way, and my therapist moved out of the relaxed open legged position he was in and it did *occur* to me that if he were a real guy it was a possible unintentional consequence of what we were talking about no matter how fat and ugly I am. But he never gave me any reason to think I had anything to worry about.
Posted by Racer on April 28, 2008, at 9:13:09
In reply to Is there anything you don't say to your therapist?, posted by Dinah on April 26, 2008, at 16:00:57
Posted by rskontos on April 28, 2008, at 14:52:45
In reply to Re: AND » muffled, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2008, at 18:59:16
you to keep saying you are fat and ugly. I bet you are more beautiful than you realize. I want to cry when you say that. I guess you say that because maybe you weigh more than you think you should. Don't we all. Even my daughter who weighs 109 lbs. thinks she needs to lose weight and it makes me so sad that the world has made us think that weight and looks are so important.
Please can you stop saying that because saying is believing and I think self worth is tied to how we speak about ourselves too. I care about you, and it pains me to hear to say that about yourself and this is I think the second or third time.
I don't want you to think that. Please
rsk
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2008, at 16:57:32
In reply to Re: AND,,,dinah dinah dinah...it upsets me for, posted by rskontos on April 28, 2008, at 14:52:45
I'm sorry it upsets you. :(
But in this context at least, I think I'm saying it in a good way, as something I'm glad about. There is a layer of protection in it you know. People don't really look very hard, sometimes their eyes skip right over. Far less conspicuous and more effective than wearing a hood and mask.
I'm not saying I choose it for that reason. It's more that it's an unintended side benefit.
And I should also add that the most important people don't see me that way. My husband still finds me attractive, because he still sees the slim reasonably attractive girl he courted.
Posted by Sigismund on April 28, 2008, at 21:28:23
In reply to Re: AND,,,dinah dinah dinah...it upsets me for » rskontos, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2008, at 16:57:32
>My husband still finds me attractive, because he still sees the slim reasonably attractive girl he courted.
Yes.
We get older, but what it looks like is everyone else gets younger.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2008, at 2:39:53
In reply to Re: AND,,,dinah dinah dinah...it upsets me for, posted by Sigismund on April 28, 2008, at 21:28:23
:-)
It's amazing what infants are graduating from med school these days. Must be the vitamins they're feeding them.
Posted by Dinah on April 29, 2008, at 2:43:29
In reply to Re: holy crap! » Dinah, posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 23:44:47
I'm sorry Twinleaf. I realize that you were expressing something really beautiful to you. My fear may have gotten in the way of my acknowledging fully what was a positive experience for you. I didn't mean to turn the thread entirely toward that though. I hope you feel free to express your feelings on this issue, and promise not to let my fear get away from me again.
Posted by twinleaf on April 29, 2008, at 5:28:14
In reply to Re: holy crap! » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on April 29, 2008, at 2:43:29
was very meaningful and beautiful. Yes, thanks Dinah. But I was extremely afraid, myself; also- like you. If I hadn't had an analyst who was able to remain comfortable in the face of my boiling cauldron of feelings, nothing good or helpful would have come out of it.
Actually, I think I inadvertently hijacked the thread, which was originally about whether we are always truthful. I tend to be truthful about the big issues, but less so about little things to do with him- like his hair standing up from his head.
Posted by rskontos on April 29, 2008, at 11:33:49
In reply to Re: AND,,,dinah dinah dinah...it upsets me for » rskontos, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2008, at 16:57:32
ok, it was just that you said it so many times and someone inside got really sad for you thinking that maybe you were sad like maybe someone made you feel like that. I don't want to upset you either. So if you were saying in a good way sorry I did not get that. My littleone inners are literally ones not contextual beings.
rsk
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