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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
I have been going to my present analyst for about a year. For some reason, I have been finding it kind of awkward to get up from the waiting room chair, walk by him through the door, which he is holding, and go in and sit down, while he comes in after me and then sits down himself. I don't even know whether I should say "hi" or not! He just looks at me intently but doesn't say anything. I can't say I've made too much progress in getting more comfortable, yet, but he did say some interesting things about it when I first expressed my uneasiness and uncertainty.
"A mentor I had during my training told me that one welcomes a patient (analysts use "patient" rather than "client") into one's office as an honored guest. However you do it, that is the message you want to convey."
When I wondered about whether I should say "hi" or not: "you can do whatever feels best to you on a given day, and it doesn't always have to be the same."
And perhaps the most interesting: " one of the hardest things to do is to avoid developing a social aspect to the relationship. This is especially difficult to avoid with patients who are younger colleagues (I'm a doctor, but in a different field) or analytic candidates in training. A social aspect to the relationship may fulfill short-term social needs of the analyst, but it may also in the longer term prevent the colleague or candidate from saying, fully, what he needs to say."
You would think, with all this wise, kind direction, that I'd just be flying in there without a care, feet scarcely touching the ground, but that's not the case! Am I the only one? I kind of think I might be. I should say that once I'm there, I don't feel awkward at all, although I do feel all those other powerful and disturbing feelings that go along with therapy- in massive amounts...
Posted by Annierose on April 24, 2008, at 22:38:45
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
No you are definitely not alone feeling those awkward moments from waiting room to therapy chair.
My t opens the door and does greet me in some fashion ... whether it's "hello" "good morning" "welcome back" ... short and sweet. Then I have to walk past her and open her office door and pause until she catches it behind me. I hate it I hate it I hate it. She has me walk ahead so she can then lock the office door.
Can you give yourself a practice run of deciding a day to say "hello" and seeing how that feels? I imagine he might say "hello" or "hi" back. More often than not I do reply in same. However if I'm particularly annoyed or aggitated or tired, I may say nothing until I lay down.
It's only 5 or 10 seconds but its heavy in thought and feeling.
Leaving is much less awkward. She waits for me to gather my belongings and say "good-bye" "have a nice week-end" or again ... nothing. She takes my lead unless I'm going away. She makes an extra point to be encouraging before a long absence.
Posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 23:00:57
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by Annierose on April 24, 2008, at 22:38:45
Thanks for responding, Annie. The doors seem to be quite awkward, don't they? Your door situation sounds more complex than mine, because you have to open it and then she locks it. But at least the most awkward part is in the beginning, not in leaving.
I have tried various greetings, such as "hi"or "mprning" but he doesn't say anything. I think he feels he is welcoming me by having a friendly expression on his face- and by holding the door for me. Unlike you, I run into the same difficulty when I leave. He stands up; he is not too good at ending things, but as he's getting up he says something like "we're in the middle of things, but the time is up". Then he stands there and looks at me while I get up, turn, open the door and leave. If I say, "see you Friday" or "bye". he doesn't say anything. So the leaving is awkward, too. I guess he is making sure to have NO SOCIAL ELEMENT whatsoever!
The sessions themselves are really wonderful- many, many really wonderful, transformative ones. Because of that, I guess I can put up with an awkward beginning and ending- and, who knows, perhaps I'll eventually become more secure and relaxed about it all.
Posted by Dinah on April 25, 2008, at 8:33:59
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » Annierose, posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 23:00:57
Over time my therapist and I have come to an awareness of what works for us. He knows I hate to make small talk, or really to talk at all before we're in the office. If we're waiting for the elevator together, I give serious thought to skipping this one and waiting for the next. And he knows that too. So he calls me in then walks ahead of me down the hall to his office. It's a way from the waiting room, so sometimes he's mostly down the hall before I even enter the hall, which makes me smile. Sometimes he grabs some coffee and I wait quietly for him to continue. Once we're in, I make sure the pillows are as I like them then sit down and wait for him to stop fiddling with the files. Then he sits down. Then one of us will smile and say "Hi". That marks the beginning of the session.
It feels perfectly comfortable at this point, although it took a while to get to the rhythm.
Endings are nice. He opens the door for me, and if he forgets to say "You can call me if you need to", I pause and smile at him expectantly until he laughs and does it. Ritual and constancy are important to me, and we've developed a lot of rituals involved with ending the session. He's got an extra door down the hall to leave by, which is nice. I usually don't even glance towards the waiting room to see who is waiting for him.
Posted by muffled on April 25, 2008, at 9:56:59
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
doors can be dangerous.
they can lock you in.
or out.
they can slow down escape.
Just going thru them, if someone is holding it, can bring one in close proximity to another, therefore potential risk.
I wish there was no doors.
I have often thot i would like to take all doors off my house, cept exterior doors.
M
Posted by raisinb on April 25, 2008, at 10:20:31
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
I find that moment awkward, as well--where you have to walk past them into the office while they hold the door.
I know what you mean about the "intent stare." My T does it during sessions. When I stare at the floor, she tips her face down to see me better. I feel so on display, so pressured, so exposed. I don't know if they realize how difficult that is to deal with.
Posted by MissK on April 25, 2008, at 15:05:36
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
Maybe tell him you would feel more like an honoured guest if he actually responded to your hello's and bye's.
> NO SOCIAL ELEMENT whatsoever!
I find that a curious approach, being we are supposed to be social animals.
Posted by Annierose on April 25, 2008, at 16:48:05
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » Annierose, posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 23:00:57
Your story reminds us all that even when your world changes abruptly, good things can still happen that enrich your life in ways that you didn't imagine.
So besides having a sense when "time is up", your therapist stands to let you know it's "really" time. I think it's cute in a funny sort of way. Maybe it's telling of him --- that he finds parting difficult too.
I am still lying down but I generally know it's time. My therapist will say one of several things (the usual) and remains seated until I walk past her sitting in the chair. I think she does this to avoid an awkward moment as we pass each other in the tiny space.
Posted by twinleaf on April 25, 2008, at 18:20:23
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by Annierose on April 25, 2008, at 16:48:05
I wouldn't have thought of it myself, but I DO think he may have difficulty with partings- he's the one who recently increased the length of his sessions from 45 to 50 minutes because "45 minutes didn't seem long enough"
I think part of our difficulty is that his office is small, also. There's the possibility of collisions...
Posted by twinleaf on April 25, 2008, at 18:24:33
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by MissK on April 25, 2008, at 15:05:36
It's an excellent approach for me. He radiates intelligence, warmth and attentiveness even without opening his mouth. What does find its way into our relationship are intense transferences from my own past, which I can then take a good long look at, with his help.
Posted by MissK on April 25, 2008, at 18:47:51
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » MissK, posted by twinleaf on April 25, 2008, at 18:24:33
Well, as long as the discomfort you feel about the greetings and good-byes thing is not too worrisome, then good luck.
Posted by twinleaf on April 25, 2008, at 19:13:37
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by MissK on April 25, 2008, at 18:47:51
While wishes of "good luck" are of course always appreciated, this particular instance of well-wishing seems to have a bit of an edge to it. I am so extremely fortunate to have found this wonderful analyst. I couldn't possibly ask for more: the relationship I have with him is one of the most meaningful ones I'll ever have in my life, It is so strong, loving and accepting, also humorous and delightful- sometimes things happen between us which not only make me cry, but bring tears to his eyes also. It is not in any way in need of support or encouragement by anyone.
Perhaps the admittedly subtle, low-key humor of this thread did not succeed in reaching everyone who responded to it.
Posted by MissK on April 25, 2008, at 19:48:37
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » MissK, posted by twinleaf on April 25, 2008, at 19:13:37
>>Perhaps the admittedly subtle, low-key humor of this thread did not succeed in reaching everyone who responded to it.
No. I did not get the sense you were being humourous when you wrote about the way he doesn't say hello or bye to you. I believed it was something that was concerning you.
As for my good luck, well you clearly said your therapist's approach is an excellent one for you. What more can one say if there isn't a problem, except good luck.
As for the rest below, I don't know why you are telling me that. Did I say it was something otherwise?
>I am so extremely fortunate to have found this wonderful analyst. I couldn't possibly ask for more: the relationship I have with him is one of the most meaningful ones I'll ever have in my life, It is so strong, loving and accepting, also humorous and delightful- sometimes things happen between us which not only make me cry, but bring tears to his eyes also. It is not in any way in need of support or encouragement by anyone.
Posted by Daisym on April 26, 2008, at 16:56:46
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
Sometimes I think it depends on the path to the office from the waiting room.
In my favorite office, my therapist has to come down the stairs to get me and then we go back up together. A few years ago, KK had a thread about her therapist watching her from behind and I mentioned the stairs. She made the funniest comment about "using it" as I climbed the stairs and to this day, I go up with her in my head and a half-smile on my face. We also have an ongoing joke about me being the consistent space holder in the waiting room - almost five years and lots of other people have come and gone and I'm still there...often I'm the only one there! I even greet the other therapists when they stick their head's in and their own clients aren't there yet, "just me here" and they laugh.
I tend to think of those moments of crossing worlds - going from my well guarded, professional self, into a place of vulnerability and safety. And because it is so loaded, it never feels graceful.
Leaving is always hard and he knows that. I almost always say, "I'm going to go now, or I need to leave" (like I have a choice) because I control the clock. I can't bear to be kicked out or dismissed. He stands and walks me to the door but then he always takes a step back when we get there. Recently I asked him if that was to avoid an unexepected hug (he doesn't hug or touch) and he said no, it was about making room for the client to leave. I said it looked self-protective. He said he'd think about that, he wasn't aware of it being.
I'll also add to this already overly long post that I think it is hard for our therapists when sessions don't end well - they are too abrupt or when we leave very upset or angry. I think that is why ending rituals are very important and why I try to wind down a few minutes early.
There is something just so personal about starting and stopping, isn't there?
Posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 22:04:02
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by Daisym on April 26, 2008, at 16:56:46
Hi Daisy! Nice to hear from you...I think you're in the midst of a vacation, aren't you? It sounds like you've got the comings and goings really down, complete with the important, respectful aspects, and also the humorous and subtly flirtatious aspects! I still remember, too, kk entertaining us with her descriptions of going up the stairs ahead of her T. Very memorable!
Do you know instinctively when your session is ending? I used to, but almost never do now. I think this makes it kind of jolting.
Posted by KAL44 on April 27, 2008, at 8:05:17
In reply to Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 24, 2008, at 22:16:35
My analyst is similar. The hall has a T intersection from his office to the waiting room. He comes to the T and calls me. Then he walks down toward his door. So I don't see him until I turn the corner. That is the uncomfortable part. I usually look at the floor. I go in and he stands until I sit down. He has even taken my coat from me to hang it up. I told him I can do that, and he laughed. We have a number of humerous moments, thank God. But he does get my coat for me when it is time to go and says, "see you tomorrow' or which ever day and often says "take care."
Once I would not sit down when I went in just to see what he would do. He just kept standing too. I started laughing and said "aren't you going to sit down," and he said he would when I did. I said something like "oh for heavens sake" and sat down. We sort of laughed about it, but it is uncomfortable. Leaving, well I don't know when the time is coming up, but when he starts to lean forward, then I know. If I would lie on the couch like he wants me to, I would be able to see the clock. I have said as he leans forward, it must be time, and he laughs. I look at the clock and say, yes I guess it is. He stands at the door as I walk by him, and off I go. Does feel awkward, and we go through this three times a week. I think I will tell him this week that it feels awkward and see what he says. Oh heck, he will just want to explore that too. I will say three times a week is better than two as I feel more stable and don't dissociate like I used to.
Posted by raisinb on April 27, 2008, at 9:17:56
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » twinleaf, posted by Daisym on April 26, 2008, at 16:56:46
My therapist only recently (after 3 years) learned to end bad sessions well by telling me that she wishes I would call her if I am upset or need to talk more. This works for me, but I wish she'd learned earlier how important it is to express that she was going to be there, despite the fact that we'd had a tough session.
Posted by Daisym on April 27, 2008, at 14:43:06
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » Daisym, posted by raisinb on April 27, 2008, at 9:17:56
I'm glad she finally learned to say the right things. I think sometimes, especially in long-term therapy, our therapists think that we "know" we can call and don't remind us, because to them it is so obvious.
If I have a really bad session at the end of the week, sometimes my therapist will check in over the weekend and sometimes I will. It is comforting to know that he doesn't want me to suffer alone or maybe it is that fact that he recognizes that I am likely to still be suffering - that it doesn't just go away or receed like I imagine it does for him.
Perhaps this is another chapter in our book - "Beginnings and Endings". I think we need a working title, something like - "What We Wish You knew - Clients comment about therapy."
Or "Our View From the Couch"
Posted by Daisym on April 27, 2008, at 14:47:17
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office...., posted by twinleaf on April 26, 2008, at 22:04:02
Most of the time I do know when the session is ending. But believe me, I keep the clock in view. Sometimes I will resist looking at it - I tell myself it isn't my job to watch the clock. But I can't stand it...staying too long freaks me out in a big way - breaking the rules and all that. I think my therapist has decided that letting me feel in control of my sessions is more important right now than working on my need to control things. Thank goodness!
Posted by raisinb on April 27, 2008, at 17:58:43
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » raisinb, posted by Daisym on April 27, 2008, at 14:43:06
Absolutely merits at least a chapter. She *did* think it went "without saying." I sure did yell at her for that.
It is nice to see you post, Daisy--I hope your trip is going well.
Posted by estrellita on May 4, 2008, at 5:33:22
In reply to Re: Getting into and out of his office.... » Daisym, posted by raisinb on April 27, 2008, at 17:58:43
Great thread.
I've always hated hated hated ending sessions with it's with a psychologist I like (there have been 2 of them). My last t commented on this once or twice, because I'd get upset when she said our time was up.
With my current t, I usually feel like I'm being rushed. I'm trying to put my stuff (notebook, pen, whatever) in my bad, then get my bag across my chest/shoulder (messenger style), and he's always standing at the door with it open. I wish he would wait to stand up until I'm ready to stand up too. As it is, I feel like he can't wait to get me out of there.
And I really hate the sessions ending with him. It feels like a dangerous time, where boundaries are more at risk of being crossed or violated. Not that anything has ever happened (to my mind) - it just feels like he wants to get away just so nothing ever could. Last week, I turned around to face him after I walked out the door to ask a question, and I felt like he had this look of alarm on his face.
During sessions if it's a room with a chair and a couch, he always takes the chair, leaving me the couch. Last week, there were 2 chairs and one couch, and I was really tempted to sit on one of the chairs instead. I guess I have a lot of problems feeling like he's the professional and I'm the patient. That's just not how I see this particular relationship. I think he knows this somewhat, and I think maybe it bothers him.
Anyway, great thread - I knew I wasn't the only one who has these thoughts about the little rituals surrounding going to/from offices, physical crossing of paths, etc., but it's great to read what others have to say.
This is the end of the thread.
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